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Author Topic: Fearless LIGHT vs. Fearless STD  (Read 9191 times)
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cids
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« on: March 10, 2010, 09:43 PM »

What are the differences in tricking department ?
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Slate color beat-up Fearless STD(Fearless SUL US, 3PT LS) - Main tricking kite
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rxburner
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« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2010, 11:04 PM »

The Standard tricks in slightly higher wind and the Light tricks in slightly lower wind. They are both nice. If you put 3PT's LS on the STD and 5 PT's LS on the Light, there is not much difference.
I prefer the Standard for most general flying.
I have not flown the Vented Light
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tpatter
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« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2010, 01:12 AM »

Light gets a bit fast when the wind is above 10mph, but I still like it even then. It's a great frame - I switch to the Standard for less speed and more mass, but the Light will fly right up to 20 without the frame deforming or showing signs of concern - you can still stall and trick in the teens, particularly with long lines (say 100-120 which give you a large window).  I fly my Light with the 5pt lower spreaders and wind brakes at times.  If I take only one kite with me, that is the one.

Ultimately, it depends on your winds and how many Fearless you think you need.  With our local winds here (usually 3-12), I fly the Light about 70% of the time.  I'd say if your typical wind is 2.5-10, then go with the Light.  3.5-16, go with the Standard, 4-20+ then go vented.  These are my general opinions based on flying the kites and not rigorously validated, but I think good advice.

There is alot of overlap in terms of wind required in the Fearless line.  They will all delightlyfully fly in 4-5mph, the big difference is on the very low and upper ends.  The vented light has a wider wind range than the standard (IMO) and is super tricky throughout.

Here's a possibly little known fact - the sails are all the same as are the frame dimensions (afaik, weighting is different and there are bridle changes as well).  So, if you want to you can reframe and change your decision at a later point.  Also, they all have the same basic "feel" in terms of how you fly and trick them - its simply a matter of choosing the right frame/mass versus wind .
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zippy8
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« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2010, 01:19 AM »

the Light will fly right up to 20 without the frame deforming or showing signs of concern - you can still stall and trick in the teens, particularly with long lines (say 100-120 which give you a large window).
I realise that all of Lam's kites and in particular the sainted Fearless are coated with Unbelievium™ but... a 3PT frame neither "deforming" nor "showing signs of concern" at a genuine 20mph is something I'd very much like to see, either in person or on video. Got a link ?

I'm not saying that I don't believe you but it's the sort of thing that I like to have a solid confirmation on. You understand I'm sure  Grin

Mike.
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« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2010, 01:39 AM »

What fool would capture that sort of video? 

I am for sure not suggesting that someone as a rule should fly the Light into the teens, just that you can (and I have) and the kite is both fun and fine if you don't mind a quicker pace.  Also, the lower spreaders are 5pt and the spine is P300 which I think helps out. 

I also have no wind meter I take to the field, but rely on those the state has setup.  Personally, I would not fly my Light to 20 mph, but I've seen folks do it while I was flying my standard right beside them last year at a trick clinic in Lincoln City with a wind-meter (no video).  There were 6 of us flying all day in 20+ and no one broke anything.

I think you are also missing the general point that I made - that is if you need to regularly fly in that sort of wind, then get a vented.
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zippy8
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« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2010, 01:56 AM »

What fool would capture that sort of video? 
Someone who wished to substantiate a claim ?  Wink

Quote
Also, the lower spreaders are 5pt and the spine is P300 which I think helps out. 
Ah... so the Light can be had with 3PTs but the one that you claim can fly in 20mph is, in fact, framed in what many people would rightly consider Standard. And has the same sail as the Standard. And might reasonable be thought of as.... Standard. Y/N ?

Quote
I think you are also missing the general point that I made - that is if you need to regularly fly in that sort of wind, then get a vented.
No, I got that. I'd be flying a vented kite in 20mph, possibly with some other aerodynamic additions too. 20mph is a lot of wind. I was merely querying the claims about the Light flying untroubled in 20mph.

Mike.
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obijuankenobe
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« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2010, 02:24 AM »

I have to agree with Zippy.  20mph is alot of wind (+8m/s!), and without a wind meter, you can't gauge it accurately.  The difference between  sustained 15 and 20mph is huge for the kite and not so much for trees and such.  The Beaufort scale (originally a sailor's wind scale based on the behavior of surface waves) breaks here for a reason.  (15mph is a solid B-4, and 20 is a solid B-5.)

In my experience, heaven is Beaufort 1-2 on the beach.  Beaufort 4 is stiff strong flying wind (inland hell; beach just doable), and Beaufort 5 is just not fun anywhere.  And you are flying your Fearless light in Beaufort 5. 

In any case, this is small potatoes as AudioRob used to fly the Mohawk in Beaufort 6 and above.   Roll Eyes

obi
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« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2010, 02:42 AM »

I was there in Lincoln City, with a wind gauge, although not verified by the Zip  Lips sealed ,..........That day, the winds did not go under 22 MPH after they came up...............I was totally uncomfortable flying the Std. in the middle of the wind window, but others were tricking their lights everywhere...........this was beach wind coming all the way across the Pacific unfettered from Japan...............and they were sustained with gusts higher.  At one time I caught a 28Mph gust on the meter.  Even with a twenty percent error margin, which couldn't be,  the winds were at twenty or above for the afternoon.

Put that in your pipes, gentlemen.............but don't try smoking it  Shocked

Jim
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« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2010, 02:53 AM »

Well, if it was Beaufort 5, it was Beaufort 5.  I wasn't calling anyone a liar, just suggesting that 20mph is alot of wind and should not be used synonymously with 'strong winds' in which a light kite will fly comfortably.  Up for debate still is whether these are 'lights' at all.   Wink 

I will clarify my statement by saying that Beaufort 5 not ideal trick kiting conditions FOR ME and what I want to get out of it.  In fact, if you need a tent to roll 'things' in, then it's FAR from ideal.   Cheesy

obi       
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« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2010, 03:04 AM »

I wasn't suggesting that anyone was calling anyone a liar....................(well maybe someone with the crack about substantiation)  The truth is, I've never seen anyone other than Lam who appeared to be comfortable in those kinds of wind.................definitely not me.............at twelve I'm ready to call it a day even with a vent.....................I was there because I was there for the clinic and decided I'd hang on for dear life  Huh.............The thing about it being a light?  If it will fly comfortably in 3 miles per hour without moving backwards.............I'd call it a light..............

It will (the light, ie)
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« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2010, 03:05 AM »

I was totally uncomfortable flying the Std. in the middle of the wind window, but others were tricking their lights everywhere...........
I hope that you can, therefore, understand my enquiry. If you had not been there, would you have accepted this statement that a Fearless Light laughs off 20mph wind when you yourself wouldn't inflict that on your Standard ?

It is quite some claim. Or it least it would be for any other kite than the Fearless which mocks physics and tweaks the nose of structural limitations  Tongue

I really must get around to trying one some time. Grin

Mike.
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« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2010, 04:01 AM »

I was totally uncomfortable flying the Std. in the middle of the wind window, but others were tricking their lights everywhere...........
I hope that you can, therefore, understand my enquiry. If you had not been there, would you have accepted this statement that a Fearless Light laughs off 20mph wind when you yourself wouldn't inflict that on your Standard ?

It is quite some claim. Or it least it would be for any other kite than the Fearless which mocks physics and tweaks the nose of structural limitations  Tongue

I really must get around to trying one some time. Grin

Mike.


That seems to happen alot. Someone knocks a kite, or says it is not so or impossible....but they have never flown said kite....so How in the heck can they come to that conclusion?  Good on ya Zip Master, try out a Fearless, but be prepared to have a bigger kite sale... Cheesy
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« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2010, 04:08 AM »

Mike,
You really should...............but forewarned is forearmed..........It literally gives tricks away, (although some might call it a crutch  Wink)  Me?  It makes it a lot easier to relearn the proper muscle memory to do today's tricks.....(although I'm not that hot on yesterday's either Cry

Jim
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« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2010, 04:50 AM »

That seems to happen alot. Someone knocks a kite, or says it is not so or impossible....but they have never flown said kite....so How in the heck can they come to that conclusion?
A) I have gone to some lengths not to say "it can't do that" or "that's impossible". I remain to be convinced of this claim but I am open to being convinced. As I said... a simple video of such an event would almost certainly seal the deal.

B) It is more than possible to draw conclusions based on similar experience. I have yet to come across a kite I would describe as Light, albeit a Light with a Standard sounding frame, that I would be even momentarily consider attempting to think about the possibility of chancing my arm at flying in honest-to-goodness 20mph winds, let alone expecting it shrug off such treatment.

What was the question ?  Wink

Mike.
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fworley
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« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2010, 08:58 AM »


I don't believe any of this crap ... I had a set of Sea Devils ... SUL, UL, STD, FV. At one point I had a Midvent too.

Guess how many I have now ?

If Lam's kites really were the greatest thing since sliced bread don't you think I might have kept one ?

And whilst its true that the Sea Devil is not the Fearless - there was even more frankly nauseous hyperbole back in the day regarding the Sea Devil.

-Frazer


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