GWTW Forum
October 31, 2014, 12:19 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Forum Info Login Register Chat  
Welcome to the GWTW Forum.
Guests (non-registered users) can view the forum but are unable to post.  If you don't have anything to say then why would you bother to register?
One of the most popular sections of the GWTW Forum has long been the Swap Meet.  A great place to sell old, seldom flown kites or to get great deals on used (gently flown) kites.  Only registered users can see the Swap Meet section, let alone wheel and deal.  1000's (literally) of kites have changed hands thanks to the Swap Meet.
There are several more benefits to being a registered user, but you'll have to join our little community to find out all the "secrets".
Questions or concerns? Contact Steve ... just drop an email to: forum.gwtwkites@gmail.com

Pages: 1 [2] 3 ... 5   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Fearless LIGHT vs. Fearless STD  (Read 9319 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
tpatter
Trade Count: (+24)
*****
Online Online

Posts: 1993

Location: Seattle, WA

WWW
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2010, 09:05 AM »

Ok Mike,

The next time I am out and have wind in the teens (nearing 20, perhaps gusts to 20), I will get some video of the event for your satisfaction.  In that wind with a Light, don't expected anything but higher wind friendly tricks like snap lazys, insanes, and cascades.

Many of the videos of the Light on my youtube site already contain videos of the kite flying in 2.5-10 which I consider its ideal range (which, once again I think, is the main point of this thread).

Frazer,

I don't get it - I don't see anything in this thread even remotely questionable beyond Mike's disbelief that the Light will not instantly explode in 20mph of smooth wind.


-Tom
Logged

6 kite tom
fworley
Guest
Trade Count: (0)
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2010, 09:20 AM »

I don't get it - I don't see anything in this thread even remotely questionable beyond Mike's disbelief that the Light will not instantly explode in 20mph of smooth wind.

His disbelief is questionable ? (He won't like you saying that ... and hes a mmmModerator don't you know)

I guess I've just had my fill of Fearless euphoria ... I'm drowning in passive b/s.

-Frazer
« Last Edit: March 11, 2010, 10:08 AM by fworley » Logged
tpatter
Trade Count: (+24)
*****
Online Online

Posts: 1993

Location: Seattle, WA

WWW
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2010, 09:38 AM »

I get it - my bad grammar,  the 20 mph question seems to be at issue and I've already stated that I don't walk around with a wind meter and plot things.  All I know is that I have been flying the light while others were concerned enough to stop flying their standards.

On the euphoria - I don't think that its any different than Nirvana euphoria, or Cosmic, or Talon, or WM.  We all love our favorite kites, until we find a new favorite!  Smiley

Hmmm....."Cosmic Euphoria" - I like that one.  I think I'll recommend that name for my sons band.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2010, 09:40 AM by tpatter » Logged

6 kite tom
jaybett
Trade Count: (+5)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 134

Location: Vancouver, WA

« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2010, 09:40 AM »

I was at the Lam workshop at Long Beach, WA. If I remember correctly, winds never went below 23mph, and went up to 26-27mph. When we came in from flying one of the first comments made by Tom aka Tpatters, was that nobody would believe that a Fearless Vented Light would be able to fly in that kind of wind. A video really needs to be done.

Jay
Logged
fworley
Guest
Trade Count: (0)
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2010, 10:04 AM »

On the euphoria - I don't think that its any different than Nirvana euphoria, or Cosmic, or Talon, or WM.  We all love our favorite kites, until we find a new favorite!  Smiley

No, its NOT the same thing at all.

Show me a post where the flier claims to flyer this vented Comic/Nirvana/Talon/whatever in 2-3 mph.

Or where they fly their SUL in 10+ - and yet every week we see such Fearless claims.

I don't doubt the Fearless is a nice kite. I know it will be *very* nicely made. And I can see from the videos that it is very tricky ... however ... flying a vented in less that 5mph is an asinine thing to do, likewise flying a SUL in 5mph+ or a light in 20mph+.

-Frazer
Logged
johnfarl
Trade Count: (0)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 110

Location:

« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2010, 10:09 AM »

I have flown my Fearless Light in the mid twenties and even did some tricking on the edges.  Put in 5PT's in LS and used some brakes.  It was flyable as any vented kite.  Yes it is euphoria and it feels good.

Now I have a Standard and it flies a little better in the higher winds.  Lets say I don't worry as much.

I will probably go to std vented later.  Tax refund time.

John
Logged
DaveH
Guest
Trade Count: (0)
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2010, 11:29 AM »

A couple of months ago I gave Lam a call. I had come into some unexpected cash and was in a position to buy a fearless standard.  During our lengthy conversation, Lam made a strong case for his new light vented.  With a set of 5 pt LS, it seemed a guy could have a pretty versitile kite which due to venting would handle rough inland winds pretty well.  I still wanted the std, however, because I like the mass of a standard and prefer the way unvented kites respond.  Unfortunately some serious bad stuff came up which caused me to not be able to get the kite.  What I came away from the experience was all this vented kites in light winds, light kites in big winds stuff is a way to address age old problems from another perspective.  Does it work?  Don't know and frankly don't care.  My favorite thing to do when its blowing 20 knots is sit on my butt and drink beer.  But for those who have found success in these methods, allow them their voice and give the maker his due.
I hope to get that Fearless std one day.  In the mean time, I'll continue to rave about my Nirvana, annoy folks with my delight found in the E3, and hopefully many more kites.  c'mon guys, this is supposed to be fun.
Logged
jaybett
Trade Count: (+5)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 134

Location: Vancouver, WA

« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2010, 12:09 PM »

I'm not even sure what kite we are talking about. If it's the Fearless Light Vented, it will go into the 20mph plus range. The Light itself probably tops out around 15mph, without wind brakes.  At 20mph, it would be shuddering.

One of the reasons for the Light's high wind range is that the frame is closer to a Standard then an Ultra Light. I think the nose being bridled forward also helps, with the low and high points of the wind range. I wonder if the sail, being made out of two pieces of material, instead of panels, helps at all?

If Fearless owners, which I am one, are going to make extraordinary claims about the performance of a Fearless, then we need to provide proof. Otherwise it's nothing more then hyperbole.

Jay

Logged
fworley
Guest
Trade Count: (0)
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2010, 12:19 PM »

I'm not even sure what kite we are talking about. If it's the Fearless Light Vented, it will go into the 20mph plus range. The Light itself probably tops out around 15mph, without wind brakes.  At 20mph, it would be shuddering.

Tom Patterson is talking *light*

... but the Light will fly right up to 20 without the frame deforming or showing signs of concern ...

Which is oh-so-typical-Fearless-rhetoric.

-Frazer
Logged
Kantaxel
Trade Count: (+14)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 893


Location: Bothell, WA

« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2010, 12:29 PM »

Unfortunate that all Fearless owners are dishonest isn't it?

Not dishonest, just deluded perhaps ...

.................Lam has us under a voodoo spell and we're all in it together to destroy the sport kite world.............

He rather does. Like I said ... same thing happened with the Sea Devil ... and it real wasn't up to the hype.

Perhaps its got something to do with the asking price. Once you've spent that much you feel compelled to eulogize endlessly (God will it never end ?) about it ?

Good Gadzooks Fraz  -   you really need to go stand in the corner and take a LOOOOONG time out.

Okay pops ... and you good easy on that Kool Aid now okay ?  Cheesy

-Frazer

Above it all................you are making Lam a lot of money with your bs...............maybe you're on the inside? Wink............He's got you under his spell...............more so than the rest of us deluded ones Wink

I thank you...............and I'm sure Lam does too............   Cool
Logged

Kant Fly......might just as well buy!
jaybett
Trade Count: (+5)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 134

Location: Vancouver, WA

« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2010, 01:16 PM »

I'm not even sure what kite we are talking about. If it's the Fearless Light Vented, it will go into the 20mph plus range. The Light itself probably tops out around 15mph, without wind brakes.  At 20mph, it would be shuddering.

Tom Patterson is talking *light*

... but the Light will fly right up to 20 without the frame deforming or showing signs of concern ...

Which is oh-so-typical-Fearless-rhetoric.

-Frazer
I agree about the rhetoric.

One of the reasons, I fly the Fearless, is because of its wind range. I've flown the Light when standards have felt over powered. To be fair I've flown the Light when it felt over powered, and the standards were doing just fine. 

In my limited experience, I have flown kites that I considered to have good wind ranges. The Widow Maker and the Jinx. I know this is subjective, but the Fearless felt like it had a better low and higher end then those two kites.

The Standard with its extra mass is probably a little better then the Light at rotational tricks. The Light though in its sweet spot which is between 5mph and 12mph, is my favorite of the line.

Jay
Logged
Bob D
Trade Count: (+1)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 577


Location: Saratoga County, NY

« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2010, 01:18 PM »

I think that last post is what we're waiting for. Let's quit while we're ahead.

After three pages of posts and most of it off topic, I was starting to get the feeling that it was time to start locking the thread.

"Knock, Knock. Mods?"
Logged

Bob D.
DWayne
Trade Count: (+10)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1355


Location: Corning, Ca.

« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2010, 01:49 PM »

I must have jumped through the wrong rabbit hole. I thought this was the Unicorns & Rainbows forum.

Denny
Logged

I always wanted to be a procrastinator..........
I just never got around to it.
obijuankenobe
Trade Count: (+1)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 425


Location: Barendrecht, Nederland

« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2010, 02:00 PM »

Com'on!  This is a fine conversation, and should NOT be locked.  No one is being unreasonable yet.  I think it is good to have some passion about this stuff. 

One of the reasons, I fly the Fearless, is because of its wind range. I've flown the Light when standards have felt over powered. To be fair I've flown the Light when it felt over powered, and the standards were doing just fine. 

The Standard with its extra mass is probably a little better then the Light at rotational tricks. The Light though in its sweet spot which is between 5mph and 12mph, is my favorite of the line.

Jay

That first part is very...well, confusing.  Sounds like you agree with both parties in this argument.  Only one can be true on average, I guess.  Still, I am not sure what winds would scare a standard but a light?  I guess I haven't flown in them. 

And to just keep it real, it sounds like from your list of kites you have flown relatively few kites and certainly none with magic powers like the Fearless.  Yet you only 'sense' there is a wind range difference?  Again, not helping the pro-Fearless crew all that much IMO.  Minor point, admittedly. Wink

What exactly are the framing differences we are talking about here?  5PT versus 3PT LEs?  Both use 5PT spreaders?  I think Zippy may have been onto something when he pointed out the difference is not the difference between a standard and a UL...'light' might even be exaggerating the difference?  'Light standard' is maybe more apt?  Then it's semantics, of course.

I still tend to think 20mph sustained/blow factor 5 is more wind than fun.  But I do fly an XTs.   Cool

obi
Logged

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." L daVinci
jaybett
Trade Count: (+5)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 134

Location: Vancouver, WA

« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2010, 03:19 PM »

Com'on!  This is a fine conversation, and should NOT be locked.  No one is being unreasonable yet.  I think it is good to have some passion about this stuff. 

One of the reasons, I fly the Fearless, is because of its wind range. I've flown the Light when standards have felt over powered. To be fair I've flown the Light when it felt over powered, and the standards were doing just fine. 

The Standard with its extra mass is probably a little better then the Light at rotational tricks. The Light though in its sweet spot which is between 5mph and 12mph, is my favorite of the line.

Jay

That first part is very...well, confusing.  Sounds like you agree with both parties in this argument.  Only one can be true on average, I guess.  Still, I am not sure what winds would scare a standard but a light?  I guess I haven't flown in them. 

And to just keep it real, it sounds like from your list of kites you have flown relatively few kites and certainly none with magic powers like the Fearless.  Yet you only 'sense' there is a wind range difference?  Again, not helping the pro-Fearless crew all that much IMO.  Minor point, admittedly. Wink

What exactly are the framing differences we are talking about here?  5PT versus 3PT LEs?  Both use 5PT spreaders?  I think Zippy may have been onto something when he pointed out the difference is not the difference between a standard and a UL...'light' might even be exaggerating the difference?  'Light standard' is maybe more apt?  Then it's semantics, of course.

I still tend to think 20mph sustained/blow factor 5 is more wind than fun.  But I do fly an XTs.   Cool

obi

The debate up to this point has been on wind range. While I don't agree that a Fearless Light can go up to 20mph or higher without deforming or shuddering, the wind range is one of the Fearless' strength. It will fly and still be trickable in winds,  that will cause other fliers to be getting out their vents.   

A few years ago, you were caught up in Sea Devil euphoria, your avatar was even a picture of one.  From your own experience, you know that Lam kites have a wide wind range. With all the flying you have done, trick parties and camps you have attended. You never experienced the Sea Devil Light flying easily in winds, while people were working hard with their standards or grabbing their vents?

There is more to a Fearless, then its wind range. What got you so excited about Sea Devils, is what people appreciate about the Fearless.

Jay
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 ... 5   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  


items purchased through the links below help support the forum

Cal Custom

Our forum is made possible by the good folks whose ads appear below and by the members of our community (PayPal donation button at bottom)
In case you missed it each ad is linked to the sponsors web site.  So please, take a moment and visit our sponsors sites as this forum wouldn't be possible with out them.
Interested in running an ad for your business or kiting event?  Contact Steve at advertise.gwtwkites@gmail.com for a quote.

kmacFab
kmacFab

Kite Classifieds Ad
Kite Classifieds

A Wind Of Change
A Wind Of Change

Kitebookie
Kitebookie.com

Untitled Document

Untitled Document
Untitled Document

A Wind Of Change
skyshark

Untitled Document
Untitled Document


Untitled Document
DOLLAR SHAVE CLUB

Support the GWTW Forum

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.8 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC
SimplePortal 2.2.1 © 2008-2009
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!