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Author Topic: Doug Stout's Arrow Canard build (split off from the Stunt kite design tool)  (Read 36203 times)
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ae
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« Reply #240 on: October 27, 2014, 10:41 AM »

You know Doug,

I do have a few 0.004 boron fibre sticks laying around Smiley
I wonder if it would be possible to build on of those, maybe a 12 inch version, and making the sail in 4g/m2 mylar.
I guess it would be a very very delicate work.
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Doug S
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« Reply #241 on: October 27, 2014, 11:19 AM »

ae,

Very interesting idea.  How does the boron fiber compare in stiffness to carbon?  A Bird of Prey (BOP) with an assembled wing span of 12 inches would have a sail area of 31 square inches.  Based on my calculations, the cross sectional area of the carbon rod would need to be at least 0.00018 square inches, which is a diameter of at least 0.015 inches.  If I were to build a BOP 12, I would use 0.02 inch diameter carbon rod for the center spine and wing spars, with 0.01 inch diameter carbon rod for the battens.  We have found the BOPs fly better with a stiffer frame, as indicated in my prior posts.

If you are interested, I could scale down a BOP for you that would have a constructed wing span of 12 inches.  Just let me know.  All of my designs are drafted in AutoCAD, so it would be easy to do.

Doug
« Last Edit: October 27, 2014, 11:56 AM by Doug S » Logged

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« Reply #242 on: October 27, 2014, 01:50 PM »

Ooooo....I know some of the miniature flyers near me used boron wire... Supposed to be seriously stiff for its size!
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« Reply #243 on: October 27, 2014, 02:06 PM »

thief,

So it looks like we also are going to build a small Bird of Prey with a 12 inch wing span.  Grin  Please let me know who I can speak with about the boron material, specifications and potential sources.

Doug
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« Reply #244 on: October 27, 2014, 04:32 PM »

Hi Doug,

The boron wire is serious stiff, a lot more so then carbon at the same size.
One also has be to be very careful when handling it, it is not brittle, but it can shatter and the broken off parts can stick very very well into skin, for example your fingers.

i would love to give a small one a try in building, should be very interesting.

You can get boron wire at indoorspecialties as well as extra thin film.
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« Reply #245 on: October 28, 2014, 09:00 AM »

ae,

I spoke with Ray at Indoor Specialties today.  I am an old model airplane flyer, so we had a lot to talk about.  Ray was very curious about our glider kites.

Regarding the boron filament (tungsten core), the two diameter sizes that he carries (0.003 and 0.004 inch OD) are for the indoor free flight models, where they laminate the boron filament to the balsawood frame to make the structure stiffer.  To use the boron filament on its own for a glider kite, the wing span would have to be very small.  Ray indicated that there are larger diameters of boron filament, but the density would be more than carbon rods we are using, by about 20 percent.

Regarding his Mylar film, Ray indicated his Ultrafilm with a thickness of 1.4 microns may work, which I calculated have a density of 0.065 oz./sq.yd., which is about 20% of the 0.33 Cuben fabric I am using.  As with the born filament, the free flight modelers glue the Mylar film to the balsa frame to provide support.  I am not sure how durable the Mylar would be at this thickness for the layout of my Bird of Prey.

As a first step, I suggest that I design and build a Bird of Prey with a 12 inch wing span, using the Cuben fabric and carbon rods.  Once I get the details worked out and the kite dialed in, I will share the plans with you, so that you can explore using other construction materials.

Just my thoughts,

Doug
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« Reply #246 on: October 29, 2014, 05:46 PM »

Just finished the Bird of Prey (BOP) 36 made from PC31.  Couldn't resist test flying it in my front yard in the dark with the front lights on.  A dark, very damp and 48 F degree night are not the best conditions to test out a new design, but the BOP 36 flew great!  The wind was light at less than 3 mph.

This version of the BOP 36 weighs 17 grams and has a sail loading of 0.295 oz./sq.ft., which is slightly less than its bigger brother, the BOP 48 at 0.300 oz./sq.ft.  Due to the very damp conditions and wet grass from the storm that just passed, the BOP 36 and the flying line were very wet (and heavier), but it flew like a champ.  Had it in the air for about an hour.

The goal for this version of the BOP was to have a higher sail loading version of the BOP 36 made from Cuben fabric, to be used for light to moderate winds, which can be flown very aggressively.  Since the chord is less than its bigger brother with about the same sail loading, it will fly slightly faster than the BOP 48 due to less contact time of the air with the sail material (Reynolds Numbers).  This was by design and this version of the BOP 36 is a hot little glider.  It easily glides to the corners of my front yard, which open area is about 60 by 60 feet.  It accelerates and spins quickly under aggressive flying line inputs, yet transitions into a moderate glide speed when the tension on the fly line is relaxed.  Could be a fun kite for indoor ballet with fast tempo music.  Attached is a picture after I dried off the kite.  I have found with the BOPs made from PC31 that it’s good to leave them assembled for a while, which allows the sail to flatten out.  All of my BOPs made from PC31 are hanging assembled in my basement since they were built.

Will tinker a little with the center of gravity (CG) to confirm I am at the sweet spot.  The CG is currently set the same as its light weight Cuben brother, at 8 inches from the nose of the sail material.  Will fly it again during the day under dry conditions.

Later,

Doug

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« Reply #247 on: November 04, 2014, 07:31 PM »

The following provides the Youtube and Facebook links I received from Elliott Brogren, who was recorded flying one of my Bird of Prey (BOP) 36 glider kites.  Thank you Elliott for providing the video links.  Great indoor demo of the BOP 36, which I hope you enjoy!  Grin

http://youtu.be/6O2aULQMfxI

https://www.facebook.com/232378193482957/

Later,

Doug
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« Reply #248 on: November 08, 2014, 08:48 AM »

Finally got around to start construction on my second Bird of Prey 36 for me, since my other two have happy homes in Washington and New York States.  Also cut out the sail for the Bird of Prey 12, which is so cute!  The attached file provides a picture of the cut out sails made from Cuben Fabric.  Hope to have these in the air by next weekend.

Later,

Doug

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« Reply #249 on: November 08, 2014, 11:35 AM »

Very nice Doug.
I'm curious of the little one will do.
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« Reply #250 on: November 10, 2014, 07:51 AM »

Was able to get some more air time on the Bird of Prey (BOP) 36 made from PC31.  This time the weather was drier at 49 degrees F, with light winds at 3.5 mph according to Weather Underground.  In my front yard, I don't think I had winds greater than 2 mph, which were changing direction.  Great glider kite that flys just like its bigger brother, the BOP 48, but more responsive due to its smaller size.  As expected, the glide speed is faster than the BOP 36 made from Cuben Fabric, due to the higher sail loading.  This one is a keeper and gives you a good workout if you like to fly aggressively like I do!  Will finalize the plans and post them in the future.  Construction is a blend of the BOP 48 and 36, where it looks like a BOP 48, but with the same carbon tubes and joiner used in the BOP 36.

Later,

Doug
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« Reply #251 on: November 14, 2014, 01:18 PM »

Dear Fellow Glider Kite Enthusiasts,

The following provides the links to the Bird of Prey 36 made with PC31.

Links to Plans:

•   Bird of Prey 36 – Specifications Plan (November 12, 2014):  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSNmxha0ttdXB4ZDQ/view?usp=sharing

•   Bird of Prey 36 – Patterns for PC31 Plan (November 12, 2014):  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSZ0dzS2FjUkpBY0k/view?usp=sharing

Links to Pictures:

•   Bird of Prey 36 – Front View Picture:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSeXZFTHlnV3M3Zzg/view?usp=sharing

•   Bird of Prey 36 – Nose Detail, Front of Sail Picture:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSY1ctUUp2SjN4Q2c/view?usp=sharing

•   Bird of Prey 36 – Nose Detail, Rear of Sail Picture:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmScEpNZ0hhUndzVWc/view?usp=sharing

•   Bird of Prey 36 – Center Joiner Detail, Rear of Sail Picture:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSMjBBLTRwSUszOTg/view?usp=sharing

•   Bird of Prey 36 – Tail Detail, Rear of Sail Picture:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSbVoxcjdpWmxtQWs/view?usp=sharing

•   Bird of Prey 36 – Wing Spar Dihedral Line Detail, Right Side, Rear of Sail Picture:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSb1hlYmc4MHNCSHc/view?usp=sharing

•   Bird of Prey 36 – Wing Tip Detail, Rear of Sail Picture:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSVUQtN2t1MmVlWWc/view?usp=sharing

If you are not comfortable building a Bird of Prey 36 yourself, just send me a note and I will build one for you.  The color selection is up to you, with my guidance.  The reasonable fee I request for the construction the Bird of Prey 36 allows me to replace my building materials, so that I can continue my research efforts that brought you the Hawks, Raperes, and now the Birds of Prey.

I also updated the links for the BOP 24 (Reply 224) and BOP 36 (Reply 225) made from Cuben Fabric, and the BOP 48 made from PC31 (Reply 207).  Updates to the plans were minor text edits, where the primary edit was indicating the FSD Nock should be a 3.2 mm ID, instead of a 3.0 mm ID.  In the last shipment of FSD Nocks I received, the 3.0 mm ID has a much larger OD, which will not fit inside of a FSD 5.0 mm ID Nock.

In addition to the previously provided plans, the following links provide the patterns for the BOP 24 and 36 made from Cuben Fabric, where each plan also includes the list of materials on the template.  This is what I now use to build these kites, which reduces the number of plans you need to print out.

•   Bird of Prey 24 – Pattern for Cuben Fabric with List of Materials:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSQUtYak9uQmx0Q0U/view?usp=sharing

•   Bird of Prey 36 – Pattern for Cuben Fabric with List of Materials:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TPx1W-lkmSVDFWYzUxX2VMemc/view?usp=sharing

Yours in kiting,

Doug

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« Reply #252 on: November 16, 2014, 07:15 AM »

So Doug, I've never been much of a glider guy and have a deep seated need to have handles in my hand at all times.  That said, the Icarex BoP 36 looks intriguing and would do nicely in my backyard and reduce travel time on those windless days.  With your plans I could likely muster one out of my shop but why when I could have one lovingly built by the designer? Please PM the details on acquiring a 36" red tipped blackbird (red tips, black center).  Don't even think about under charging.

Thanks,
Steve
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« Reply #253 on: Yesterday at 07:46 AM »

In the past, I was unable to link my pictures directly from my Google Drive, so I would reduce their file size and attach them to my Replies.  Due to memory requirements on this great Forum, the picture attachments in my older replies were removed.  With the help of Steve, I now can link the pictures stored in my Google Drive.  The linked pictures will be at the original resolution of the photographs.  I am working from my later posts and I am back to Reply 203.  Hope to complete this over this weekend.

Doug
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