GWTW Forum
September 16, 2014, 06:39 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Forum Info Login Register Chat  
Welcome to the GWTW Forum.
Guests (non-registered users) can view the forum but are unable to post.  If you don't have anything to say then why would you bother to register?
One of the most popular sections of the GWTW Forum has long been the Swap Meet.  A great place to sell old, seldom flown kites or to get great deals on used (gently flown) kites.  Only registered users can see the Swap Meet section, let alone wheel and deal.  1000's (literally) of kites have changed hands thanks to the Swap Meet.
There are several more benefits to being a registered user, but you'll have to join our little community to find out all the "secrets".
Questions or concerns? Contact Steve ... just drop an email to: forum.gwtwkites@gmail.com

Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Apparent Wind Pull  (Read 2203 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
DonCrash
Trade Count: (0)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 87

Location: San Francisco, Ca

« on: March 16, 2010, 09:25 AM »

Typicaly rule is: when a kite pulls hard, we go bridle up.

Within the definition of Apparent Wind, pull is generated when a kite moves fast across the wind window.

I've read somewhere once that moving the bridle down, can actually limit the pull generated by the apparent wind.

Does this apply to our stunt kites as well?

ie...in such a situation, such that I feel a pull when flying across the window and become stronger if I do any circular figures, that I should move the bridle down, (in a sense, slow down the kite) and this will generate less pull created by the 'apparent wind'? (but still a pull, just limited).

I hope what I'm tryin' to say/ask makes sense...   Embarrassed
Logged

Vented L'organic; Vortex; DS (closeted); Quantum (modded to taz); Ocius STD, UL, UL (2pt P90), SUL; Pi (Home made kite)
Bob D
Trade Count: (+1)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 573


Location: Saratoga County, NY

« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2010, 09:36 AM »

If the wind is up, you probably want to move the bridle up to change the angle of attack so that the kite doesn't pull as hard.

When the wind is lighter, you probably want to move the bridle down so that the kite can catch more wind.

Someone should probably give you a more technical answer.
Logged

Bob D.
inewham
Board Moderator
Trade Count: (+1)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 379


Location: Nottingham, UK

WWW
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2010, 11:41 AM »

It depends what you're looking for - both work for differing definitions of work.

If reducing pull is your priority pulling the nose in will shed wind and reduce pull but at the expense of reduced window, reduced speed control, difficulty stalling, wider turns.

If a wide window, speed control and the ability to stall are a priority, setting the bridle heavier will slow the kite so the kite will pull but at least it will be constant and not surge as the kite speeds up.

It a personal taste thing and obviously everyone has their own preference but competition fliers will often prefer the heavier bridle, if you're just flying for fun you may prefer to set the bridle lighter. Try both and see what works for you and your kite.
Logged

Kitemac
Trade Count: (+17)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 142

Location: Somerset County NJ

« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2010, 12:28 PM »

... but competition fliers will often prefer the heavier bridle...

Could you explain this a bit?  I could understand a competitor "accepting" a heavy pull for better performance but don't understand why you would prefer a heavy pull.  If two kites perform the same I would always pick the kite with the reduced pull. 
Logged
xuzme720
Trade Count: (+4)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 466

Location: N. of Houston

« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2010, 12:34 PM »

I think he is just talking about bridle setting, not 2 separate kites based on the pull...
Logged

Asfink tersez wot....

Exactly! Party on, Garth!
Allen Carter
Moderator
Trade Count: (+19)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1808

Location: Half Moon Bay, CA

« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2010, 12:43 PM »

... but competition fliers will often prefer the heavier bridle...

Could you explain this a bit?  I could understand a competitor "accepting" a heavy pull for better performance but don't understand why you would prefer a heavy pull.  If two kites perform the same I would always pick the kite with the reduced pull. 

Heavier bridle setting for reduced speed and increased stall, not to increase pull. Pull is a byproduct. In competition flying you generally need to be able to slow & stop the kite a lot. Just zooming around with a powered up kite may not be what's needed. Also, many kites lose turning radius when the bridle is moved up, so you have a powered up kite zooming around that can't do nice snappy corners.

I generally can't stand to fly kites set up for "light wind".

Back to the original question, I think the additional pull that might be generated by a kite set for faster forward speed is much less than the increase in pull that can result from setting the bridle "heavy" (normal). Really depends on the kite design. Some kites with a lot of sail are just going to pull hard if you get them set properly for normal flight.
Logged

Allen, AKA kitehead
RonG
Guest
Trade Count: (0)
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2010, 12:58 PM »

Could you explain this a bit?  I could understand a competitor "accepting" a heavy pull for better performance but don't understand why you would prefer a heavy pull.  If two kites perform the same I would always pick the kite with the reduced pull. 

I can't speak for Ian, but I'd interpret it as "prefer the effects of heavier bridle, accept that it comes with stronger pull".

I'd rather have to use more muscle than have the kite screaming across the window.
Logged
xuzme720
Trade Count: (+4)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 466

Location: N. of Houston

« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2010, 01:03 PM »


...than have the kite screaming across the window.
...unless it's a Micron. But that is way off of what this thread is about...
Logged

Asfink tersez wot....

Exactly! Party on, Garth!
inewham
Board Moderator
Trade Count: (+1)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 379


Location: Nottingham, UK

WWW
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2010, 01:35 PM »

I can't speak for Ian, but I'd interpret it as "prefer the effects of heavier bridle, accept that it comes with stronger pull".

I'd rather have to use more muscle than have the kite screaming across the window.

Yep, What Ron said - I want the steady speed, big window tight turns and solid stalls. I can live with the pull.

Although I must admit that when I learned figures I couldn't fly something like a square cuts or steps down on a kite that *didn't* pull without losing it half way through. I always preferred a Sandpiper with a heavy bridle over Phantom Elites even though the Phantoms were more refined. So maybe I do prefer a certain amount of pull, just so long as its constant. Roll Eyes
Logged

DD
Trade Count: (+16)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 937


Location: Ohio USA

« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2010, 04:52 PM »

I can't speak for Ian, but I'd interpret it as "prefer the effects of heavier bridle, accept that it comes with stronger pull".

I'd rather have to use more muscle than have the kite screaming across the window.

Yep, What Ron said - I want the steady speed, big window tight turns and solid stalls. I can live with the pull.

Although I must admit that when I learned figures I couldn't fly something like a square cuts or steps down on a kite that *didn't* pull without losing it half way through. I always preferred a Sandpiper with a heavy bridle over Phantom Elites even though the Phantoms were more refined. So maybe I do prefer a certain amount of pull, just so long as its constant. Roll Eyes


that, for me anway, is the key part.
Logged

Sine Metu!
xuzme720
Trade Count: (+4)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 466

Location: N. of Houston

« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2010, 05:00 PM »

My starting way back with a TOTL Chevron has made me like a stronger pull than the average pilot. I am however working hard to overcome this nasty preference!
Logged

Asfink tersez wot....

Exactly! Party on, Garth!
ae
Trade Count: (+2)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 418


Location: Germany - Berlin

« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2010, 07:09 PM »

And to throw some wenches into the gear Smiley

If you have a true speedkite, setting the bridle lower will in fact increase its speed and pull, a lot.
Those kites operate as true airfoils, and setting the bridle lower will reduce the drag of the kite in the air,
resulting in more forward motion, and pull.
Plus most of them will only become actually controllable when set very low.
Otherwise their profiles are so small that they just flutter out of the sky during steering.
Logged
DonCrash
Trade Count: (0)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 87

Location: San Francisco, Ca

« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2010, 08:24 PM »

And to throw some wenches into the gear Smiley

If you have a true speedkite, setting the bridle lower will in fact increase its speed and pull, a lot.
Those kites operate as true airfoils, and setting the bridle lower will reduce the drag of the kite in the air,
resulting in more forward motion, and pull.

wait..wha...?? bridle low reducing drag?? this only applies to true speedkite or did you type somethin wrong?
Logged

Vented L'organic; Vortex; DS (closeted); Quantum (modded to taz); Ocius STD, UL, UL (2pt P90), SUL; Pi (Home made kite)
ae
Trade Count: (+2)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 418


Location: Germany - Berlin

« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2010, 08:37 PM »


wait..wha...?? bridle low reducing drag?? this only applies to true speedkite or did you type somethin wrong?

Nope, its true. With the bridle set low they have less of cross section facing the apparent wind while flying.
And yes, this applies only to real speedkites.
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  


items purchased through the links below help support the forum

Cal Custom

Our forum is made possible by the good folks whose ads appear below and by the members of our community (PayPal donation button at bottom)
In case you missed it each ad is linked to the sponsors web site.  So please, take a moment and visit our sponsors sites as this forum wouldn't be possible with out them.
Interested in running an ad for your business or kiting event?  Contact Steve at advertise.gwtwkites@gmail.com for a quote.

kmacFab
kmacFab

Kite Classifieds Ad
Kite Classifieds

A Wind Of Change
A Wind Of Change

Kitebookie
Kitebookie.com

Untitled Document

Untitled Document
Untitled Document

Untitled Document
Untitled Document


Untitled Document
DOLLAR SHAVE CLUB

Support the GWTW Forum

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.8 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC
SimplePortal 2.2.1 © 2008-2009
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!