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Author Topic: Taz Machine ... Old school?  (Read 6199 times)
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John Welden
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« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2009, 03:30 PM »

Seems to me the taz became popular when people started flying french style kites.  It's a good way to get a decent looking flat spin on kites that don't flat spin well.

What I don't like about the trick is the loss of control. I've never been a big fan of tricks where you pop, slack and pray for it to come around. I'm not a good enough flyer to consistently pull off one pop, multiple rotation flat spins.
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mikenchico
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« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2009, 03:58 PM »

Well I have to go with Denny on this one, You enter a Slot Machine from horizontal flight, lets just say from left to right, you exit it in horizontal flight again from left to right, a full circle over here is 360 degree's, I know because I run around in them all day Wink. Technically I guess since you rotated the kite between 30 & 45 degrees clockwise to setup the trick then back that 30-45 degrees before the full 360 degree rotation you could stretch it & say 420-450 degree's. But I wouldn't count the reversing of that original setup rotation and only give you rotation in a single direction so the most I'm giving on a Slot Machine is 390-405 degrees.

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JimB
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« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2009, 04:42 PM »

Ah! Peter Peters'!

The site so nice he named it twice!
« Last Edit: March 15, 2009, 04:44 PM by JimB » Logged
Dolphinboy
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« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2009, 10:18 PM »

I've never been a big fan of tricks where you pop, slack and pray for it to come around. I'm not a good enough flyer to consistently pull off one pop, multiple rotation flat spins.

I don't think it requires a prayer  Smiley just just the proper timing for the inputs. Once you got that it's not much different than many other flat spin tricks.

I still think it seems "old school"
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James -
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Dolphinboy
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« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2009, 10:38 PM »

How much rotation for a correct Slot Machine?

I've always done them like I've seen them in the videos. 360 deg or just over 360 deg (slightly nose away) coming out the same direction as you started.

As far as how much rotation for a correct slot Machine here is a description of a Horizontal Slot (Slot Machine?) by Jon T:

"Horizontal Slot - Fly across the window, execute a half axle move with your inside hand (up wing) As soon as the belly flattens out (that is before the half axle move is completed!), pull your inside hand again sharply and push forward the outside hand causing the kite to spin a 540 flat spin. Do this at the edge close to the ground, the kite 540s back into the window for a landing."

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James -
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JimB
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« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2009, 12:35 AM »

"... Do this at the edge close to the ground, the kite 540s back into the window for a landing."



AKA the Flashback slot/540 variant.
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DWayne
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« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2009, 10:50 AM »

"... Do this at the edge close to the ground, the kite 540s back into the window for a landing."



AKA the Flashback slot/540 variant.

So what's the trick I learned from randyg's slot machine tutorial? No matter what angle I look at it from, I only see a 360 degree rotation in his video.

Denny
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Dolphinboy
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« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2009, 11:33 AM »

The Peter Peters description is identical to the one I got from Jon T. Smiley

From FA:


"TP-USA Tricks Party Definition Group 3

The SLOT MACHINE is a single 360 belly-down rotation initiated from a flare (belly down, nose away) that is entered from a horizontal line of flight. From a horizontal position (nose pointing left or right), the kite is flared and then rotated on its belly a full 360. If the kite is pointing left, the kite will rotate counterclockwise; if pointing right, it will rotate clockwise. The kite should exit the rotation in the same direction (left or right) of entry. Compare TAZ MACHINE.
KEY ELEMENTS: ►Horizontal entry and exit in same direction. ►Flat rotation."

They say 360 go figure! I do it 360 deg and call it a Slot Machine. When a was doing the Taz wrong it was a 540 Slot and difficult to do consistently, for me anyway.
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James -
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JimB
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« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2009, 01:07 PM »

The definitions have a tendency to drift over time, as Mr. Zippy has pointed out.

A flashback is (or was) any slot that travels back towards the center of the window. The further out in the window, or even outside the window, it is executed the further back into the window it will travel, much like a side slide.

You don't have to exit at 360.. nothing wrong with it though.

Probably better to just call it a flatspin variant to take that into account.

The main reason I consider the taz a 540 variant is that the positioning/2nd input is identical to the positioning/2nd input for a std 540. The tricky bit is getting it set up from the half axel.

TP definitions have never been in complete compliance with generally accepted trick definitions; they needn't be. For the purposes of trick competitions under TP rules, it's more about getting everybody flying the same thing, rather than matching, point for point, with whatever the current def is.

Having said that.. the French took a lot of liberties re-naming and defining in whole new ways stuff that had already been named and defined.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2009, 01:13 PM by JimB » Logged
stuartF
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« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2009, 01:21 PM »

If 540s, Slots and Taz are pretty much the same, how come I can wring the first two out of my Inner Space, but not the Taz ??
 Cry
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Dolphinboy
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« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2009, 09:21 PM »

If 540s, Slots and Taz are pretty much the same, how come I can wring the first two out of my Inner Space, but not the Taz ??
 Cry
Stuart

The belly down flat spin part is similar but the entries are all very different. I've had trouble with the Taz on several kites that will 540 & Slot no problem too.
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James -
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lylenc
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« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2009, 09:31 AM »

If 540s, Slots and Taz are pretty much the same, how come I can wring the first two out of my Inner Space, but not the Taz ??
 Cry
Stuart

I believe it has to do with the nose position for timing of the second wrist pop. For a Taz compared to a Slot, let the nose rotate further around and away from you before the rotation wrist pop input is made. This is from someone that can barely do a Slot both directions. I'm not Tazzed yet in either direction.
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Craig     Walla Walla, WA     Just One More!
Will Sturdy
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« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2009, 09:43 AM »

It is the position necessary before the spin input.

 A slot you need to spin before it points directly away.
In a taz you have to wait until the nose is beyond.

Kites with little mass (I haven't flown one, but I guess like the inner space) may have trouble getting the momentum to rotate far enough.
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fworley
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« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2009, 10:05 AM »

Kites with little mass (I haven't flown one, but I guess like the inner space) may have trouble getting the momentum to rotate far enough.
Mark Clements - of JoE fame - has a solution for his ... add a little weight to the wingtips.

I have a Talon UL ... it has little mass ... but Taz's easily ... the weighting helps maintain momentum.

-Frazer
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Beaufort
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« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2009, 11:56 AM »

If 540s, Slots and Taz are pretty much the same, how come I can wring the first two out of my Inner Space, but not the Taz ??
 Cry
Stuart

Because the Taz on many kites is a very sensitive trick regading timing and force of inputs   Cry . On standards this is often more evident, than on UL/SULs. Practise at the very edge of the window and focus on timing and finesse, never force, and you will get the Taz eventually  Wink
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