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Author Topic: Trying to learn  (Read 3847 times)
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ribsandwhiskey
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« on: March 24, 2010, 09:34 AM »

Looking for some guidance. I have been flying a Prism Nexus for about 8 months and I have solved the lawn dart problem. I have also mastered a couple of very basic manuevers (figure 8's, stalls, loops etc) but I cannot progress any further into tricks.

I get frustrated after a while, put away the Nexus and pull out my HQ Rush III that let's me take out all of my frustrations on it and have a blast. But, I want to learn how to do tricks? Will moving up to another kite (I am looking at the Prism Hypnotist), help me improve, or do I just need to spend more time and be patient with the Nexus.

If so, is that the kite one would recommend. I like it because of the "shock absorber" and the video, plus I am very impressed with Prism as a company and their Customer Service.  I am also looking at the French Kiss and the Acrobatx.

Is a better way looking at using an instructor. I live in Tampa, FL and noticed there is a Treasure Island Kiting Club, but it looks like the kite shop that they listed as their contact has been closed (Kitesville USA in Indian Rocks Beach). Any suggestions on that. I typically fly at Siesta Key but would be willing to try other spots if that would help.

Thanks in advance,

Andrew

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RobB
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« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2010, 10:52 AM »

Hey Andrew...
The key to doing tricks is to learn to balance the kite right on the edge of flying and not flying. Walk towards the kite to give it slack. Look up RandyG's sport kite blog, there are alot of good tutorials there.

Getting the Hypnotist or other full-sized kite will help, too. It took me a looonnnnggg time to learn the few tricks I can do, maybe at a rate of 1 or 2 each year, so be patient.

If I ever get down to my mother-in-laws place on Manasota key, I would be happy to fly with you and show you what I know, but it's been years since I've been down there. Maybe this year...

The quickest way to learn is to watch someone else, so good luck finding the Treasure Island Club...

~Rob.
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ribsandwhiskey
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« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2010, 11:55 AM »

Thanks Rob. Looking forward to getting a little better each time...
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DaveH
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« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2010, 12:00 PM »

Kitesville closed? Too bad.  I used to shop there years ago.

Just my 2 cents, but if its tricking you're after I would look at a larger, more stable kite (than the Nexus) that is designed for tricks.  The bigger wing will give you more time to think and react as well as simply be smoother and more predictable.  In the Prism line the Hypno or if you can find one, an E2 would be good choices.
Another nice flying trick kite that's reasonably priced is the Premiere Widow.  Many other good choices out there.  I have an Acrobatx and really enjoy flying it.  Its on the small side and can be a bit squirrely.  I don't recomend it as a good introduction to learning tricks.
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Bob D
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« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2010, 01:31 PM »

Smaller kites are nice if you like fast but bigger kites will help you to slow things down and work on the inputs for tricks. The main thing is recognize the stall and then making the inputs to do stuff like axels.
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« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2010, 01:53 PM »

Hi Andrew,       To start tricking,  Cry you have to learn, first, to stall the kite, then axels and other tricks  Cheesy will follow.  My first choice would of been a Prism E2, but it has been discontinued, so second choice will be E3,as it comes complete for flying with lines,instructional  DVD , and other aids. You can also post a wanted ad on the Forum for a used E2, complete ,and see what comes up . The DVD will be very helpful in learning to fly and do tricks.  Smooth and gentle winds.  Wink Cheers.         Tempest.
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Gamelord
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« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2010, 01:53 PM »

+1 on the Premier Widow.  I too would recommend a kite in the 7.5 to 8 foot wingspan.   I would recommend the Widow over the Hypnotist - just because I think it is a bit more stable and tricks a little easier - but both the Hypno and the Widow will be much easier to learn on than the Nexus.  The Hypno does come with the Freestyle Pilot DVD which is awesome, but you can download the video's from Randy G's site and a couple others that will probably be just as good (or arguably better) for free and apply those to either the Hypno, Widow or any other kite you end up getting.

Your best bet is always trying to find someone else to fly with.  This will give you the fastest learning curve and make your learning experience a little funner.

Talk to Steve here at GWTW, if he still has some E2's left then that is an awesome kite for the money (on sale because of the new E3) and the E2 also comes with the same DVD as the Hypno.  If he is out of E2s then he can surely recommend something in the 8 ft. range that you will love.

Hope that helps.
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fidelio
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« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2010, 02:41 PM »

+1 (another one) for the widow. it's a bit heavy, and out of the bag has a fair amount of oversteer. but with beach winds the weight hopefully wouldn't be an issue and one quickly adjust to the oversteer so the sense of it goes away. those two point out of the way, it's a heck of a lot of kite for the money. it flies and tricks well and should have plenty of longevity as you progress in skill. it's the same size, shape, and design as it's older brother the widow maker. the difference is the materials and the 'little touches' in craftsmanship. sure it's a kite made to a budget, but they've done very well getting there.

however, since you've been flying 8 months and your interest is growing rather than waning, you may consider making the leap all the way to a $300 boutique kite. they're extraordinarily durable, and capable. your mind will rest easy knowing the kite is not to blame (even though we may want to) should it fail to do what was intended. buy two mid level kites and you've spent this amount anyway but without as nice a kite to fly. if down the road you decide it's not for you after all a boutique kite holds it's value well in comparison to factory kites.

like the others have encouraged, i too would suggest finding your local fliers. they're your best resource for practical information regarding your winds, and who knows, they may even let you try out one of their kites.

lastly, welcome. Smiley
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Fdeli
Steve
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« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2010, 03:14 PM »

Andrew ... check you messages.
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Steve ... Ancient One
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art
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« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2010, 03:32 PM »

I'm on the learning curve myself, but have mastered the backflip,axel,lasy susan,yo-yo,and fade all on a Prism E-2 purchased about 3 years ago. Everything happens alot slower on a larger kite like the E-2 and makes it easier to see and feel what the kite is doing.  I have a few high end kites now,but still use the E-2 to work on new tricks, and on high wind days when I'm a bit nervous about banging up a more expensive kite.  Also check the message from Steve in the bargain corner on the E-2 close-out. Kite,bag,lines,and dvd for $118.00 is a great buy.
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mikenchico
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« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2010, 04:07 PM »

If you're past the lawn dart stage go the step above the Hypnotist. Trying new tricks you will certainly dart it still but you're past the stage of full power dives. The Hypnotist falls into the serious first time kite buyer category and things like the shock absorber are for them, IMO they hinder performance at your stage. E2/E3 if you wish to continue with Prism Kites, a real plus if you have a local Prism Dealer for parts and advice. The Premier Widow is a good choice, as are the Silver Fox's, Sky Dog (another forum sponsor) has some offerings in the middle price range that might suit you. Or jump in with both feet as mentioned above.

Meet up with some of the Florida flyers if possible, the best way to learn is with a bit of input from others and you'll get to see and probably fly a selection of kites.

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"Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see" John W Lennon

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JimB
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« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2010, 04:24 PM »

I'm just going to say that the Nexus will trick.

I think if you get yourself a training video, or work with RandyG's tutorials, you could get a lot more out of what you have.

My position on beginner/intermediate kites is go with what you have.

Sure, you might have been better off going with a more expensive kite, something like a Quantum or Hypnotist, but you didn't.

Get everything you can out of that Nexus and then move up past the Hypno to something more advanced.

We all like to have a bunch of kites.

Boy.

Do we ever.. but, if you want to get the most for your $, Make the jump to something really tasty after you have spent some more time on that Nexus.

I'm going to go out on a limb and opine that the e3 would not be what you want just yet: maybe later.

The Quantum or Hypnotist would be redundant at this point.

Stick with that Nexus, G.

JMO

YMMV

RandyG's tutorials:

http://sportkiteflyer.spaces.live.com/
« Last Edit: March 24, 2010, 04:38 PM by JimB » Logged
tpatter
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« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2010, 04:53 PM »

I'm going to recommend a BMK Exile (or Muse, or Mantis) if you are ready to step up to a higher end kite.

Super sweet, smooth flying kite that is neutrally balanced (nothing over emphasized for certain types of tricks) but also tricks very well, is well built, and a pure joy to fly.

I think that once you are confident that you can fly without damaging a kite, you should get a boutique kite - they are so much better on so many levels and will help you advance more quickly.
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6 kite tom
Dolphinboy
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« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2010, 11:19 PM »

Widow
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chrispie
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« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2010, 12:46 AM »

I am also a beginner, and i would like to share a little of what i went through.

I started in Oct 2009 and I had only the Eolo Genesis. Very quickly I got the Flying Wings Airwave.. and not long after I got a  Widow maker, then Talon UL and Standard..

I do find having a better kite help in learning new tricks. For now, my fav are the WM and TAlon UL. They are very predictable, stable and forgiving. So with that, at least you can duplicate any movements easily, eliminated many of the variables that may make your learning tougher.

My routine is very simple. As advised by many flyers, they said I must master the half axel as soon as possible. To a newbie, it is really tough. I am lucky I am able to accumulate a lot of air time due to my work nature. I fly about 5 days a week, 2 hrs each time. AFter breaking a few spreaders, and watching tutorials over and over and over again, and doing mental rehearsals etc, i finally got the half axel nailed in a month.

It is interesting. Once u can do the Half axel, you somehow should be able to understand the relationships between various hand inputs and the kite very easily. And like the others said, other tricks will fall into place easily.

Its been about 6 months, and from half axels, I am able to do back spins, jacob ladder, flic flacs, axels, fades, susans, flapjacks, cascades, yoyo and multi wraps, taz, slots and 540... but the consistencies at which i can execute these tricks is still a lot to work on. But many of these tricks starts from fades and flares.. and yes, half axels help you get the kite into a flare, which can then be transit into a fade easily.

I feel that putting some thoughts into kite behavior and the dynamics of the kite do help in the understanding of why certain tricks requires certain input. As much as putting the effort into practice , putting same amount of effort into the mental aspects do help too (just like golf, understanding what you did right and wrong).

So since you are able to control the kite in the air effectively, I recommend you start getting the half axel nailed. Randy's tutorials on that is the best.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2010, 12:48 AM by chrispie » Logged

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