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Author Topic: vortex bridle construction??  (Read 4642 times)
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tommymcmillan
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« on: April 03, 2010, 07:26 PM »

I not very familiar w/bridle constructions Sad,but I was told that the +5 on the plans for the:Vortex kite is for a the turbo line Huh in the bridle,but I don't know where to add it to the bridle Cry,could someone please walk me through this Wink.
Thank you,
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fidelio
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« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2010, 06:27 AM »

on this picture it would be segment d



as always ian newham's site has great information from parts names to theory to knots.
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Svolazzo
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« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2010, 09:18 AM »

Everett, so you do mean that the inhaul is 65+5 cm= 70cm long. Referring to the above scheme c+d=70 cm with d=5 cm.
Is it correct?
Paolo.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2010, 01:16 PM by Svolazzo » Logged
mikenchico
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« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2010, 12:52 PM »

Measurement D would be the 5 cm on the above picture, left hand side. The right hand side of your picture shows the standard non-active 3 point option. For the active bridle on the left the total length of the inhaul would be 70 cm as you've figured, you'll attach the pigtail E for your flying line at 5 cm inboard from the point the inhaul attaches to the outhaul. Use an adjustable knot like a larkshead or double larkshead on both so you can play around a bit with them to find your sweet spot.

Mark the stock position with a marker and put your knots right on them to start then try moving one 1/8" - 3/16" to see what it does, then to the other side of your mark, then move it back to stock and move the other adjustment 1/8" - 3/16" one way and then the other, see if you can descern a change, better or worse to get a feel for the available adjustments. Then go back to stock. That's usually where I leave things, the designer invairiably has far more knowledge then me.

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Untitled
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« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2010, 12:53 PM »

on this picture it would be segment d



as always ian newham's site has great information from parts names to theory to knots.

If you use the left side of this diagram its
a = 50cm
b = 50cm
c = 65cm
d = 5cm
e = pigtail/leader

the activator leg that is 22cm is tied between the a and c leg.  28cm from the leading edge on the a leg, and 33 cm from the center T on the c leg.
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« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2010, 01:39 PM »

Not really. The 5cm turbo leg is one leg by its own (usually connected below the center T) with the left and right inhaul attaching to the turbo.

Paolo - Happy Easter Smiley


What you are describing sounds like inhaul adjustments.  The diagram on the Vortex pdf looks like a 3 point bridle.  But if it is suppose to be a Turbo bridle the pig tail/leader/towpoint would be on the inhaul 5cm away from where the upper, lower, and inner meet.
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Svolazzo
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« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2010, 02:26 PM »

Not really. The 5cm turbo leg is one leg by its own (usually connected below the center T) with the left and right inhaul attaching to the turbo.

Paolo - Happy Easter Smiley


I saw the Derefat PDF of the Vortex http://users.skynet.be/cerfvolanttrick/VortexPlanA0.pdf the bridle diagramm showed is a 3 points so more likely to the right side of the diagram, so how the 5 cm bridle would work? I suppose that the inhaul is 65 cm long connect to the center T with a short 5 cm alone bridle (total length 70cm), the question is: is this adjustable, with a series of knots or not? Finally, haven't the Vortex any adjustable bridle for low and high winds?

Everett, happy Easter to you too  Smiley
« Last Edit: April 04, 2010, 02:28 PM by Svolazzo » Logged
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« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2010, 02:49 PM »

http://picasaweb.google.com/gemmeke/NieuwpoortFestival#5424410201037440626
If you enlarge that picture it is Christian standing next to a Vortex with a Turbo bridle
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« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2010, 02:06 AM »

This is someone elses build and they also used a Turbo bridle
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« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2010, 02:33 PM »

here is another shoot of the Vortex with a Turbo bridle, with nothing special done at the center T.  The 5cm is in between the pig tail and where the upper lower meet.
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ET
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« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2010, 03:36 PM »

I asked Christian and he said:
Salut Everett
Non, c'est pas juste.
Regarde la photo.


Here's his kite with a turbo bridle.  He said the PDF should have been drawn to a turbo and not 3 point. 

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mikenchico
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« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2010, 12:28 PM »

OK ET's shot shows that that is not an Activator line between A & C, it's just a keeper line to keep the bridle from being able to hook over the spine & may be placed to get the bridle to lay in a specific position while on its back.

With a Turbo and an Activator Line and the pigtail at the Center T I was seeing too much monkey motion in the bridle. I have seen more on some kites but I would hesitate getting three active elements in a bridle personally. A Turbo or a 3 point with the pigtail at the center T and a keeper line on either makes sense to me.

Still leaves the question on the Turbo; is the inhaul line C/D 65 cm with the pigtail at 5 cm down from the connection point to the outhaul line A/B or is line C/D 70 cm (C+D) with the pigtail at 5 cm down leaving 65 cm to the center T ?  I would lean toward the later at 70 cm but its a bit fuzzy to me.

« Last Edit: April 06, 2010, 12:47 PM by mikenchico » Logged

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nobbl2k
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« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2010, 01:05 PM »

IMO there is no pigtail at the center tee.
The inner leg is simply 65 cm long, measured from the spine to the pigtail for the flying line.
The turbo leg is 5 cm long. Both together make a line of a bit more than 70 cm running from the spine to the upper outhaul/lower outhaul bridle part.
It's just a plain simple turbo bridle. No magic anywhere.

At least on my two Vortexes and they both work pretty nice.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2010, 01:20 PM by nobbl2k » Logged
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« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2010, 01:43 PM »

line to keep the bridle from being able to hook over the spine

According to Tom's kitebuilding site that is the definition of an activator leg.

Anyway this thread got alot more complicated then it had to be, notice ET removed a lot of his posts.  The bridle is just a normal Turbo Bridle.  The measurements are
on this picture it would be segment d



as always ian newham's site has great information from parts names to theory to knots.

If you use the left side of this diagram its
a = 50cm
b = 50cm
c = 65cm
d = 5cm
e = pigtail/leader

the activator leg that is 22cm is tied between the a and c leg.  28cm from the leading edge on the a leg, and 33 cm from the center T on the c leg.
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inewham
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« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2010, 02:02 PM »

line to keep the bridle from being able to hook over the spine

According to Tom's kitebuilding site that is the definition of an activator leg.


Drifting off topic but...
If that line has no tension and doesn't pull in the two legs its connected to its just a keeper line and doesn't activate the bridle.
If its short enough to pull them both in then its an activator - it effectively shortens the two lines it is connected to while the whole bridle is under tension but makes them longer if either leg goes slack.
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