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Author Topic: Beach "Territory" or Right of Way?  (Read 3468 times)
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mikenchico
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« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2010, 11:35 PM »

It doesn't apply to them? After all their dog is a good dog ...
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reddobie
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« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2010, 12:38 AM »

It doesn't apply to them? After all their dog is a good dog ...

Mike is right, ever one thinks their dog is good and can do no bad.  I see it ever day.  Its what I do for a living. 

Like yesterday, a Meter Reader was attacked by 2 dogs.  As I was writing a citation to the owner for her dog running loose, the dog tried to bite me.  She said, "he didn't bite anyone".  The other owner, stated that the dog was not her's and it was a stray.  That dog was impounded and a citation was attached, to be issued if they reclaim their dog.
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cids
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« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2010, 06:50 AM »

The dog's owner should be on leash, not the dog.  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2010, 06:51 AM »

Some dog owners are a different breed, pun intended.  We are dog owners and always keep ours on a leash when it's required or suggested.  The only exception being when we're in a fenced in dog park.  Our city is nice enough to provide dog owners with a pretty good size dog park divided into two sections, big dogs over 30lbs and little dogs under 30lbs.  There are still some people that have no respect and bring overly aggressive dogs to the park and let them run all over the submissive or weaker ones, let them poop wherever and not clean it up, let them run on a long leash or no lease on the walking trail, etc.  Usually if they or their dog does something stupid, there's enough people around that they feel awkward and fix the situation they created...but some still do not *get it* and have been verbally called out by several others standing there.  Anytime that's happened, they buck it up and leave, but I dread the day that some idiot lets it escalate further...and it probably will someday.  

As far as dog owners, I haven't had a problem with, but I have had problems with fully grown adults.  I was out flying one day on a soccer field when a few people started showing up with their kids.  I didn't pay much attention to them because they were just meandering around out of range, no big deal.  No one said a thing to me, so I continued to fly.  The wind was really ripping that day and I was tearing my Quantum around the sky, buzzing the ground a few times, flying across the bottom of the window, doing dive bombs...whatever.  7ft of kite was buzzing around at high speeds, obviously a warning that you shouldn't come near it.  Not enough apparently.  The soccer coach and the kids, all of them around 5 or 6 years old started setting up cones and doing drills directly underneath where the kite was flying.  I couldn't believe it.  I just looked at the coach and said, "Guys I have to land this thing sometime".  His response, "Well we have this field reserved", and walked off, which provided no solution to my present situation of being unable to find a clear spot to land anywhere on the field.  I started backing up a few feet at a time and found a clear spot at the edge of the field and positioned myself so it would be the edge of the window then I flew it to the edge of the window and set it down, packed up and took off.

Some people just do not get it, and never will...but they'll always be the first to file a lawsuit or start an argument when something happens as a result of their neglect.  The thing is, it's not that they simply don't get it, it's that they refuse to.  By being passive aggressive and just walking into something without saying a thing but obviously encroaching upon a situation such as the ones above, they figure if they don't say anything, they'll get their way with no confrontation.      
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Related to moral relativism, it states that ethics become subjective only when approaching the speed of light. That is, it's ok to be self-serving, steal and murder as long as you're going really, really fast. (Note: This is why rap sounds better on the highway at 90mph)
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« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2010, 02:02 PM »

Some people just do not get it, and never will...but they'll always be the first to file a lawsuit or start an argument when something happens as a result of their neglect.  The thing is, it's not that they simply don't get it, it's that they refuse to.  By being passive aggressive and just walking into something without saying a thing but obviously encroaching upon a situation such as the ones above, they figure if they don't say anything, they'll get their way with no confrontation.      
This was my point. I got the impression that the group did similar stuff on a regular basis. Basically they assumed that I wasn't going to call them on their rudeness. I guess we all have our days where people doing stupid things push you over the edge...
I never said this was a good or even recommended option. I normally just fly where no one is, or move if people show up and I can no longer stay safe, but in this case, they literally walked across at least 50 yards of clear beach to park themselves right next to where I was. In hindsight, my response was definitely not the best option. It could easily have gone the other way and then I would have been "The Bad Guy" or worse, the "in jail guy". (I am a pretty big dude so the other guy would probably have been hospital boy.) At the time though, I felt the need to make my point to them, which put me right where I do not wish to be, "The A*hole Zone" alongside these fools!
« Last Edit: April 23, 2010, 05:49 PM by xuzme720 » Logged

Asfink tersez wot....

Exactly! Party on, Garth!
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« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2010, 03:48 PM »

xuzme720, just wait until another kite flyer does this, then you'll really be scratching your head. it's happened to me.
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Fˇdeli°
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« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2010, 03:58 PM »

Sometimes I wish needless stupidity was painful, there might be less of it then. Or, a bunch of people running around going "ow, ow, ow".... Roll Eyes
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Asfink tersez wot....

Exactly! Party on, Garth!
Allen Carter
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« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2010, 05:18 PM »

This is part of one of the biggest reasons sport kiting is hard to grow. Facilities.

Sport kite flying is just inherently incompatible with crowds. Like a lot of other activities, it needs it's own space. More established sports have purpose built fields, courts & courses paid for through the generosity of your tax contributions.

Sure you can fly in the corner of a parking lot or under a bridge, but that's sort of like playing catch rather than a real game of football. Sort of like practice putting in your office. For a real game of football or golf, you need space. Specially designed space.

So to get the space we need (not to mention wind) we are sort of a guerilla activity. I'm really fortunate to have a designated kite flying field near by with a big sign that says so at the entrance. Even so, on a busy day we have to deal with a lot of families with SLKs & kids running around. All that twisted dacron in the air ready to cut your Spectra! Folks who are there to enjoy kids & kites are often more aware of sport kites than the average Joe sixpack, but there is still conflict sometimes and a lot of safety issues. So we are guerillas among other kite fliers too.

We need space! We need few distractions! We'd like to avoid animal droppings and gopher holes. Flying on asphalt is not such a good thing. Then of course, there's wind. A lot of location choices are based on wind. It's one of the things civilians can't grok. "why cant you just go fly over there?" Well, because those trees block the wind, see? "Yeah, right" (eyes rolling).

So anyway, we have specific needs that are mostly not catered to in any formal way (it IS nice to fly on a roped of field at a comp or festival). We have to make do. Like JimB sez, we need to get along and stay cool. Sometimes in guerilla warfare you have to fade into the jungle to be able to fight (fly) again another day.
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mikenchico
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« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2010, 05:44 PM »

... just wait until another kite flyer does this, then you'll really be scratching your head. it's happened to me.

Oh yeah, 3 years in a row now at WSIKF in Long Beach Wa. The competition fields are 300' X 300', enough room for a couple fliers you would think ... but no! Some kite fliers need that all to themselves or they get VERY RUDE, ruder then any non kite flier has ever been to me. Take last year, I thought I recognized Mr D.H. from the year before so I waited until he was packing up to go to take an opportunity to fly for a minute. He proceeded to scream at me relentless to stop while he packed up his kite, now he was in an area that my kite could not possibly or physically fly into but I was on HIS FIELD, at an event advertised to draw 100,000 people  20 % of the area is for him only. After he left in a huff EIGHT of us proceeded to share the field with no conflicts.

Another year a flier got so huffed as to walk 300 - 400 feet back to where I was flying to yell at me that I was in his space, dunno if you recall previous posts on line lengths but I hate long lines and use 50 - 75 feet maximum.

Another flier screamed at and made Rhonda bring her just completed, 300 + hours work (with me and that is hard by itself) Delta with 2 matching 300 foot tails into the ocean because she was in his way, dunno how, I helped launch the kite and it was up on 200 - 250 feet of line and he wasn't flying anything longer then 120's but he felt the need to put her in tears.

Not one of these fliers had an official arm band on letting them even be on the fields, we had every right to call them down and kick their A's off the fields but really what good would that do? Those types have no reasoning capabilities.

« Last Edit: April 23, 2010, 05:47 PM by mikenchico » Logged

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« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2010, 06:22 PM »

... just wait until another kite flyer does this, then you'll really be scratching your head. it's happened to me.

Oh yeah, 3 years in a row now at WSIKF in Long Beach Wa. The competition fields are 300' X 300', enough room for a couple fliers you would think ... but no! Some kite fliers need that all to themselves or they get VERY RUDE, ruder then any non kite flier has ever been to me. Take last year, I thought I recognized Mr D.H. from the year before so I waited until he was packing up to go to take an opportunity to fly for a minute. He proceeded to scream at me relentless to stop while he packed up his kite, now he was in an area that my kite could not possibly or physically fly into but I was on HIS FIELD, at an event advertised to draw 100,000 people  20 % of the area is for him only. After he left in a huff EIGHT of us proceeded to share the field with no conflicts.

Another year a flier got so huffed as to walk 300 - 400 feet back to where I was flying to yell at me that I was in his space, dunno if you recall previous posts on line lengths but I hate long lines and use 50 - 75 feet maximum.

Another flier screamed at and made Rhonda bring her just completed, 300 + hours work (with me and that is hard by itself) Delta with 2 matching 300 foot tails into the ocean because she was in his way, dunno how, I helped launch the kite and it was up on 200 - 250 feet of line and he wasn't flying anything longer then 120's but he felt the need to put her in tears.

Not one of these fliers had an official arm band on letting them even be on the fields, we had every right to call them down and kick their A's off the fields but really what good would that do? Those types have no reasoning capabilities.


Hey MIC…
Yikes ! That’s out of control ! From another kite flier…  Most of the other people that fly that I’ve met are more than friendly, but I did run into a few jerks at one of the events I went to, who just walked right into the middle of where I was flying, and started flying their kites. I was in the middle of the walk of shame, but still actively flying in that spot. When I say right in the middle of my spot, I mean they had to walk over my lines. I did like JimB suggests, turn the other cheek and all that, but it still burns me up two years later.
The upshot to the whole thing is that when I picked up my stuff and moved to the other side of the field, and met JimB. I just wish I had watched him fly more, I would’ve learned more that day.
~Rob.
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xuzme720
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« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2010, 06:24 PM »

I wonder just how much of this "new" attitude is the direct result of the concept of "please everyone"? How many people are being affected by the ridiculous idea of cater to the "one" while neglecting the many? It seems that people are learning that if you can make enough noise about it, someone will make it happen for you and it's spilling over into just the type of behavior we are talking about. I see it all the time on the news where people who are too busy with their hands out to even think about doing it for themselves, screaming about how no one is helping them! I won't get into details here but it is very disturbing change in attitude that might be the start of our downfall!

Now where does this go? Oh shoot, I broke the top of the soapbox!! Where can I get a replacement??
« Last Edit: April 23, 2010, 06:37 PM by xuzme720 » Logged

Asfink tersez wot....

Exactly! Party on, Garth!
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« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2010, 07:37 PM »

Beats me...but since I ordered a 20ft lineset with my 4D, I'll be the idiot running in circles in his driveway....until the wife yells at me to move so she can park the car.   Cheesy

I did run into a similar situation at a local Kite Fest here in Ky.  When we first got there, there were only a couple hundred people there so we picked out a nice spot to plop down with a big enough window to fly my dualie on 85ft lines.  Within about 30 minutes though, it got crowded.  It was mostly families that obviously didn't know what a "window" is for sport kites.  It also must have confused them to see two lines going to one kite because they stood over the lines and just looked around.  Whodathunkit.  There was no hostility though as I realized it was simply too dangerous to be ripping around with so many kids running completely unsupervised.  I put the Quantum up and got out one of our SLKs and just enjoyed the rest of the day chilling out on the picnic blanket with the wife. 

We are fortunate enough to have a farm to fly on most of the time when we go back to our hometown on the weekend, but we live in a different city about an hour away during the week.  The parks get pretty crowded when it gets warm outside, so I'm having to really polish up my guerilla tactics as far as finding a suitable place to fly.  I try to take it all in stride, but it is hard sometimes to keep from getting flustered by other people ignorance. 

It's pretty much the same game though when I try to fly my r/c helis, only they are a HUGE kid and dog magnet, so I don't get them out nearly as often as I'd like.  Matter of fact, that's one of the main reasons I decided to get a little more into kites.   Roll Eyes
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Related to moral relativism, it states that ethics become subjective only when approaching the speed of light. That is, it's ok to be self-serving, steal and murder as long as you're going really, really fast. (Note: This is why rap sounds better on the highway at 90mph)
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« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2010, 08:33 PM »

Two years ago at WSIKF I was teaching my daughter-in-law Amy to fly a dual line. She had less than 10 minutes of experiencing flying when the following happened. A women talking on a cell phone while flying a single line kite came strolling in front of her. Amy had the presence of mind to park her kite at the top of the window while this lady paused directly in front of her, close enough that if Amy had lowered her arms the wrist straps would have hit this woman. The lady never once said a word, then slowly moved on. There were about 20 or so other dual line flyers all in a row and this lady just continued walking right through them. Sometimes you just wonder!!!!
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« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2010, 07:35 AM »

Some people just do not get it, and never will...but they'll always be the first to file a lawsuit or start an argument when something happens as a result of their neglect.  The thing is, it's not that they simply don't get it, it's that they refuse to.  By being passive aggressive and just walking into something without saying a thing but obviously encroaching upon a situation such as the ones above, they figure if they don't say anything, they'll get their way with no confrontation.      
This was my point. I got the impression that the group did similar stuff on a regular basis. Basically they assumed that I wasn't going to call them on their rudeness. I guess we all have our days where people doing stupid things push you over the edge...
I never said this was a good or even recommended option. I normally just fly where no one is, or move if people show up and I can no longer stay safe, but in this case, they literally walked across at least 50 yards of clear beach to park themselves right next to where I was. In hindsight, my response was definitely not the best option. It could easily have gone the other way and then I would have been "The Bad Guy" or worse, the "in jail guy". (I am a pretty big dude so the other guy would probably have been hospital boy.) At the time though, I felt the need to make my point to them, which put me right where I do not wish to be, "The A*hole Zone" alongside these fools!



Where do you usally fly? When I go to Galveston I NEVER have any problems? The place has 27 miles of beach, there is LOTS of room
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xuzme720
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« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2010, 07:44 AM »

I fly at Ra Appfel park on the east end. Usually there are very few people there...this happened to be Easter weekend and it WAS busier than usual, for sure. I had no problems for most of the day though, as most people had no issues once they saw the kites or were politely asked to be careful and stay clear for their own safety.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2010, 08:02 AM by xuzme720 » Logged

Asfink tersez wot....

Exactly! Party on, Garth!
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