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Author Topic: sul  (Read 7488 times)
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Dave a
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« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2010, 09:03 PM »

I think what Kevin (and myself) look for in a SUL is primarily a kite that will fly well in almost zero wind.
The Pro Dancer is the best kite either of us has seen for that requirement.
Some peoples idea of SUL winds probably dont match up with ours, hence a lot of talk about other kites being all you will ever need.

When Kevin bought the Fearless im sure he was hoping for something that flew in similar winds as the PD, but more trickable.
It certainly was more trickable (and beautifully made), but it certainly didnt fly in anywhere near the low/zero winds of the PD.
...and thats probably why it was sold, it wasnt his idea of what a SUL should be primarily about, despite being a good kite in the right winds.

Sorry if ive spoken out of turn Kevin  Embarrassed

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cids
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« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2010, 09:22 AM »

Here are some data from Lam's site regarding the weight of the F SUL:
7 Oz/192 grams  (SUL)

The F SUL is 192 grams in weight, you don't expect it to fly at almost 0 wind. It is important to read the spec. of the kite before buying.
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KaoS
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« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2010, 04:50 PM »

Here are some data from Lam's site regarding the weight of the F SUL:
7 Oz/192 grams  (SUL)

The F SUL is 192 grams in weight, you don't expect it to fly at almost 0 wind. It is important to read the spec. of the kite before buying.


I have a number of ULs that fly in 2 mph winds, so I expect to fly a SUL in almost 0 wind.  It is important to label a kite appropriately
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Kevin Sanders

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« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2010, 04:57 PM »

I have a  PD SUL  and  when  I buy  another  SUL type kite if it won't  fly as  low as my PD SUL  I put it  back on the market   I have  owned  a PD SUL for 13 years    do not own another  SUL  I would even say come  close   to flyin   in it  wind range   and if you have the  skills  and  the  will to  fly one  in almost   no wind what so ever    it   is very graceful   and  flys    almost   like  a  slow   dance   up  close  with a  fine woman    but  just  my 2 cents 
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Good air always Bobby
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« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2010, 05:13 PM »

If it doesn't maintain the tricking abilities of the Fearless, then I also would not want to call it a Fearless SUL - that would be mis-labeling.  I've flown alot of SUL versions of a specific kite that share the kites name only - this one flys like a Fearless with less mass.

It flys and tricks in 1mph.  In my experience so far, it's the best SUL modern trick capable kite that I've flown.  If you want to just do axels and fades then most indoor kites will do that just fine and weight only a few ozs, but they won't JL, rollup, comete, etc.

Having said that, I would LOVE to buy a smallish kite that weighs 2oz and does all the tricks with ease in <1mph.
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6 kite tom
cids
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« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2010, 06:10 PM »

 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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Steve
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« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2010, 06:43 PM »

In my opinion (for what that is worth) the most important thing in very low and no wind flying is the skill level of the pilot much more so than standard wind kites.  Basing what kite to buy on the opinions of others is a crap shoot at best but when deciding on a UL/SUL I have found it to be foolish.

You need to have realistic expectations of what you hope to perform with the kite.  With all due respect to those that have posted here I have found that claims as to the wind that UL and SUL's are being flown in and the tricks that are actually being performed are not always accurate.  Most any kite will fly in low and no wind (I'd point to the Thor's Hammer being flown indoors if I had the link) but, IMO, flying in low wind should require very little effort to maintain your field position.

I do apologize to any that I may have offended but I am ready to be proven wrong.  Grab your favorite SUL and head over to Chico.  I always have at least one TTUL that is ready for a challenge.
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Lee S
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« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2010, 07:20 PM »

Here are some data from Lam's site regarding the weight of the F SUL:
7 Oz/192 grams  (SUL)

The F SUL is 192 grams in weight, you don't expect it to fly at almost 0 wind. It is important to read the spec. of the kite before buying.


Good lord, a 7 oz SUL?Huh??  Those of us who have been at it quite a while probably have several Standard wind kites that weigh that much. I know of several of mine that weigh even slightly less. Back in the day (insert really old guy quote here) a SUL had to be in the 4 oz weight range (for a 7-8 ft kite) to be really worthy. How times have changed.

My present favorite "tricky" SUL is the Sano SSZ, my favorite "old school" kite is the Synchro.

My advice, since whatever you buy will cost you a pretty nickel, is try to test fly anything and everything you can get your hands on. Personal styles will weigh heavily on your decision, which is why someone can fly a kite for part of a day and fall in love or hate with it.  Doesn't make sense to buy something expensive you don't like, even if someone else claims it's the be-all of the kite world.
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cids
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« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2010, 09:24 AM »

I think there are alot of misunderstanding here regarding SUL. But also everyone are passionate about their favorite kites. That's a good thing.  Smiley

My kite friend Serge should stated more regarding what he needs in the SUL. Does he want to do all the tricks that are available or just axel or a few other simple tricks ? 0 wind or very little wind etc ? It will help us to make recommendations for you.

If you like to fly and trick(full trickability from TP1-5 or at least most of the known tricks) with your kite in low wind, the only answer from me is the Fearless SUL. It is a wonderful kite since my kite pal owns one. He can trick the SUL just like his F STD. The video below will help you to decide whether F SUL is a good kite or not. The second video shows it did the comete and other tricks. How many so-called SUL can do that ?

FearLess SUL


L A Fearless Pairs in Action


It looks like every kite makers and end users have their own definitions on SUL. Very confusing.
The Fearless SUL when compares to the Fearless STD(315 grams), then it is classified as SUL in this particular line of Fearless kites only. I believed a 'Master' flier like Lam can make it work on 0 or very very low wind. An ability that none of us can or ever achieved.

I'm not interested in any so-called SUL that cannot do trick from TP1 to TP5 or most of the known tricks in the book.

Life is short and I would like to learn to trick a kite ASAP.



« Last Edit: May 02, 2010, 12:34 PM by cids » Logged

Skywatch 1 wind meter
Climax Protec 100ft./55Kg.
Shanti 100ft./90Lbs.(back-up)
Shanti 102ft./150Lbs. flying line sets
Slate color beat-up Fearless STD(Fearless SUL US, 3PT LS) - Main tricking kite
White Fearless STD(5PT) - Back up kite
zippy8
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« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2010, 10:11 AM »

the only answer from me is the Fearless
I think we've all learnt that by now  Roll Eyes

A proper trick-worthy SUL that actually flies like the rest of the range is a rarity and usually quite an expensive one. Simply hacking the weight from any kite is not guaranteed to work at all. I'm extremely happy with the Cosmic TC Ghost that has saved a couple of flying days for me. I'm sure there are others, I've just not tried them.

Mike.
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Virtual Freestyle - ǝlʎʇsǝǝɹɟ lɐnʇɹıʌ
mikenchico
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« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2010, 10:54 AM »

I think there are alot of misunderstanding here regarding SUL...

I agree and we often end up trying to compare apples to oranges.

My definition of "Flying" is the ability to reach the top of the window without breaking a sweat backing up and pumping the lines. Others whose flying style under any conditions is to just get the kite in the air and immediately go into trick sequences ending in a two point landing have a different definition of "Flying". If I can't work a kite back downwind when I've lost field in 2 MPH then it's not flying in my book.

By my definition the SSUL that can do all the tricks hasn't appeared yet and may never appear since the aerodynamics of low wind flight differ widely from the aerodynamics of the modern trick kite.

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"Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see" John W Lennon

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ko
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« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2010, 12:21 PM »

steve love to see the slow and floaty vid again
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have fun kurt
Dave a
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« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2010, 03:27 PM »

The Fearless SUL when compares to the Fearless STD(315 grams), then it is classified as SUL in this particular line of Fearless kites only.
And just because Toyota put a "Sports" badge on their 4 door family sedan does not make it a sports car, even if it is the "sportiest" model in that range.

But as stated before, its important to know what winds you really want to fly in, and what you want to do before putting your money down.
..Much like the Toyota i suppose
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ae
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« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2010, 03:50 PM »

Low wind flying is tricky to define. What is flying?
For me, its when i can take a step back to bring the kite airborne and it can fly on its own stright up.
For others its when it can at least fly a figure eight, whiel for another its when they can pump the kite up and do tricks.
Each results in a vastly different lowend range. When with the same kind.
the pump results in the lowest rating, while the stright up the highest. The different can be easily as big as 2 mph or more.

For example, from todays flying session. Someone had a Amazing indoor kite. it flew nicely,  but he had to keep pumping it to keep it airborn. while i could still fly my Spectre stright up. On the other hand, he could do some tricks with the amazing, while the Spectre can't.
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KaoS
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« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2010, 05:35 PM »


...The second video shows it did the comete and other tricks. How many so-called SUL can do that ?


The Nirvana that Serge asked about in the first place can also do those, as can a number of other kites that fly in the same wind as a Fearless SUL (Widowmaker UL, Talon UL, DS UL...).  But that doesn't make either of them "the best".

Both of those kites are popular and have many dedicated fans and owners, but they don't suit everyone.
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Kevin Sanders

Willunga, South Australia
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