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Author Topic: Saber II Video Introduction  (Read 5258 times)
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John Welden
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« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2010, 06:00 AM »

Definitely an informative video...but you should have started flying at about one minute in  Cheesy.

I have to say, I have been curious about this kite for a while.  Some random thoughts:

1.  You walk pretty briskly backward, despite the obvious decent wind, while doing the comete.  Of course, this could be 1000 things, but from what I could see, this is probably a tail weight thing.  Every input to flare, the nose also yanks that weight (and thus the kite) toward you despite the wind.

2.  It also seems to have a not-so-level cascade...again, probably a tail weight thing. 

3.  That ROCK solid fade...flop, flip, spin, flop...LOCKED...that is a tail weight thing.

All of these things are very similar to what I experienced with the SeaDevil line.  They also come with a small neutron star hidden in the tail, and that's just crazy and totally unnecessary.  Yeah, you don't need to move your feet for a yo-yo, and the fade is ROCK...but with the added annoyance of the kite constantly having extra momentum that needs extra input to control.  Next time out, it might be an idea to start with little or no weight, and that add a bit after a some flying.  I'd love to have a go with this kite to try out this theory.

(This is not to say that Will doesn't know what he's doing.  Of course he does.  So does Lam.  But they both fly their kites with too much weight in the tail.   Wink  )

obi

I tried Tom's kite with all that weight and it seemed to fly fine.  Not a pig at all.

Zippy,

That 60 g weight works fine when its close to the center T and the winds are high.  If you hang it off the back and fly in lower winds, of course it's too much.

PS, Nice scale.  Cool
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Will Sturdy
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« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2010, 06:12 AM »

Gosh Mike, that's a lot of weight  Huh
I once tried 49g in the saber, and that thing flew terribly. I would never go more than the 35g.

It's very much a personal preference thing. I use a lot of extra little inputs in tricks like the cascade to flatten them out and make them smooth, so that's how I compensate for the extra weight. Comets are also a input thing. I find that with my inputs I can do it better with smaller inputs keeping the momentum of the kite going in lower winds with the full weight, but people with slightly different inputs might find them easier with less weight.

The fade is rock steady without the tailweight... In fact, it's even more steady the less weight. It's just an aspect of (mostly) the bridle and standoff length/position. The lack of much altitude loss is certainly due to all the weight though.

Will
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tpatter
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« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2010, 10:58 AM »


All of these things are very similar to what I experienced with the SeaDevil line.  They also come with a small neutron star hidden in the tail, and that's just crazy and totally unnecessary.  Yeah, you don't need to move your feet for a yo-yo, and the fade is ROCK...but with the added annoyance of the kite constantly having extra momentum that needs extra input to control.  Next time out, it might be an idea to start with little or no weight, and that add a bit after a some flying.  I'd love to have a go with this kite to try out this theory.

(This is not to say that Will doesn't know what he's doing.  Of course he does.  So does Lam.  But they both fly their kites with too much weight in the tail.   Wink  )

obi

Obi, most of these issues I think are due to my skills, not an overweighted kite.  For example, I have just recently learned the Comete (you know - once you learn a new trick you want to do it all the time!  Smiley).  So far, I have great difficulty in slowing it down, so I generally just walk backwards.  Once I do a few hundred more and get the proper feel for it, I will of course learn to slow it down and finesse it.  Right now, I am sure that I am hitting it far harder than I need to.  Also keep in mind that I'd only flown the kite for a total of about 2 hours when I shot this - not really enough time to fine tune inputs for a specific kite (not to mention the bumpy, not so smooth winds).

If you want to see some finesse flying on it, you should watch Will fly!  Smiley

I will try it with less weight next time out to see how I like it.  I usually just fly the kite as-is from the designer for a long time when I first get it.  My thinking is that they have spent time working it out and consider those settings to be the optimal configuration.

-Tom
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turbo23
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« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2010, 06:12 PM »

I use all the tail weight, and the only time youll have to stroll backward while doing a comete is if the winds are light. If you have a good solid wind, its no problem. Cascades dont seem to be a problem for me, like I said before in a previous post, I fly a NSE, and the inputs are very similar. I also found I liked running at the end knot on the top bridle adjustment when the winds are decent. Im really able to pop between tricks alittle faster this way. From the 4 or so hours I had to fly it, its really been getting better each fly.
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Craig
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« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2010, 06:35 AM »

What's the difference between the Saber and the Saber II?
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Will Sturdy
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« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2010, 08:05 PM »

The original saber was the first serious kite I designed. I'd designed a few kites before then, but I hadn't really intended for them to be great kites. I couldn't fly well enough when designing those to be able to tell what made a kite good, let along build that into a design.
I had gotten to be a better flier and had read/found a lot on design by the time I designed the first saber. I thought it was pretty great. As I became a better flier, I began to find some things which bothered me. Thus cam about the saber II. It wasn't meant to be an entirely new kite, just a refinement/evolution from the original.
I'll just refer to the original as the saber and the saber II as the II, just to be clear.

In precision they are fairly similar. The II turns slightly tighter and tracks a bit better. The saber was slightly slower. I think that the saber was slightly better for team flying at least at the level my team flies, but the II is better for individual precision.

The II has a wider range of tricks and executes them better than the saber.

Flat spins were a bit iffy on the saber, but on the II they are very nice. slots are a bit touchy, but look good. Taz machines are good. 540s are a snap. It's not like a cosmic, but it does them all nicely.

All the pitch stuff is there. Forward pitch on the saber was not really there, but on the II it is. Yofades are doable. Crazy copters are fairly easy. I'm not really good with either of those tricks on any kite, but I'm beginning to finally get them on the II.
Normal pitch on the II is a bit more rounded than on the saber. That makes the timing on waps slightly easier. It is also easier and cleaner catching the stoppers.

The comete and cascade are a lot less picky on the II. They are cleaner with a well tuned input, but the kite still will execute the trick without perfect timing and intensity. The kite doesn't stop dead in the air when given a bad input like the saber did on occasion.

The II actually does insanes and rolling cascades! For anyone who has seen me struggling with the saber trying to get those clean, you can imagine how happy I was when I finally got it tuned so that I could get them to work on the II Grin

Fades aren't quite so set-and-forget as the saber, but they are still much more stable than most kites out there.

Overall the II is much more forgiving and adjustable. It can take many different types of inputs and respond well to them. It can trick slow and gracefully or fast and hard. Whatever the flier tells it to do. This holds true for any of the tricks it does, from lazies and backspins through to cometes and cascades. The saber was a bit more picky about that sort of thing.

The differences design wise are not very large. The lower leading edge has a bit of curve on the II which it didn't on the saber. The sail is a bit more shallow. The trailing edge was raised up a tiny bit. The frame was switched from the G-force/P200/5PT mix used on the saber to a P2X/5PT frame on the II.
I played around with some bridle mods, but I kept coming back to the original saber bridle so that stayed the same. Frame geometry and placement is all the same except for the standoffs.
The changes were slight, but as anyone who has done much with sport kite design knows, a little change goes a long way.
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Allen Carter
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« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2010, 09:20 PM »

Thanks Will, it's always fun to hear a designer talk about their creations.
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Craig
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« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2010, 02:40 AM »

The original saber was the first serious kite I designed. I'd designed a few kites before then.............................

Thanks for that Will sounds like a very nice kite  Smiley
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oldflyer
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« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2010, 02:38 PM »

Great video

The Saber II is my current favourite kite - I would recommend it to anyone!

My review is here... http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=2729.msg24340
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Dolphinboy
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« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2010, 10:55 AM »

I came home from a business trip last week and there was a long triangular box in my kitchen waiting for me. Don't you just love that. Anyway, it was Will's demo Saber II. The weather has been rough here since but I did sneak out for a bit Sunday during a break in the front blowing through and tried the Saber II.

The Saber II came to me with the nose set all the way forward. I dropped it back to about the middle setting, I didn't touch anything else.

Right off the bat, the Saber II felt very nice and precise. Easy to control and very smooth with a soft pull for it's size and a light yet solid on the lines feel to it. It's an easy kite to stall. This is not a oversteery or sloppy kite at all but more of a friendly easy kite to fly and trick.

The kite cuts crisp corners that take smallish inputs, tracking is good for a tricky type kite. Trick inputs are on the bigger side for most.

The Best -

Side Slides, Comete and Tazes are all great. It gives these away. Slots are very easy if not real flat and multi-Slots are super easy to do. It's also a natural at the Flic Flac without worry about how you hit it or where the nose is before pulling to Fade. Fades are super stable. It Tip Stands super easy and are very easy to hold too.

The Rest -

Rolls up about average for this type of kite and hits the stoppers very well. Flies nicely rolled up.

Backspins are average too in looks and execution with the exception of the Backspin Cascades wich are above average in ease of execution. In inconsistant shifty winds I can struggle with this. Many kites are dificult to judge the input needed to spin through the bumps / shifts in the wind then stop the BS and then reverse in those conditions. With the Saber II I was hitting them first try in stormy inland winds with very good control too. Very nice.

Jacobs Ladder and JL combos are nice and good looking. I did them all over the window without problems although I think I enjoyed them most right off the deck. JLs on the Saber II are best at an even steady pace.

The Turtle based tricks are a mixed bag for me. It goes on it's back easy enough and seems to sit back well but tends to pop out of the tricks if the input is very sharp at all or if you wait to hit it. So it does need a careful longer more gentle pull for the rotation or hit it quickly (not hard) as it drops back when the nose goes deeper and maybe more slack for rotating too. I was  finally doing some Snap Lazies / Inverse but it took quite a bit of adjusting and thought on my part. Maybe I've been spending too much time on very deep Turtle kites lately.

Insanes were kind of difficult and slow to rotate for me but doable.  I needed to move backwards quite fast even in stronger wind to keep the kite rotating and the lines hooked up.

That's all I have after just a short 45 min or so with the Saber II, I can't wait to bust it out again. Maybe I'll try changing the tail weight a bit & report back.

Peace my friends
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James -
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A few kite videos YouTube / Vimeo (Yes, I am a Slacker)
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