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Author Topic: New Stealth Kite  (Read 2698 times)
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tcope
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« on: November 03, 2010, 12:36 AM »

Just complete a new kite. This is a design by Barry Ogletree that incorporates "scoops" or tail cells  on the base of the kite so that it does not require tails to fly. So far I've flown it in 4mph winds and it flies very well. I need to add some more vents in the tail cells so that the keels don't bulge out as much. I'll be adding some short steamer tails as well just for looks. Link is the picture.

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Todd Copeland
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« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2010, 05:47 AM »

 Grin very nice
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mikenchico
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« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2010, 07:46 AM »

Just complete a new kite. This is a design by Barry Ogletree ....

Sweet, are you the first one done? A real nice deal Barry setup for everybody to build one. Is there still time to get in on the last cut if anybody here would like to build one who hasn't been following this over at Kitebuilder?

I need to add some more vents in the tail cells so that the keels don't bulge out as much ....

Careful, I heard Barry has one person in court already, may just be rumor. Derivative works and all. I'd wonder if in the cells would be there right place, how about on the keels themselves? A couple circle vents toward the rear to relieve pressure on the keels themselves.


« Last Edit: November 03, 2010, 07:50 AM by mikenchico » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2010, 08:28 AM »

Sweet, are you the first one done? A real nice deal Barry setup for everybody to build one. Is there still time to get in on the last cut if anybody here would like to build one who hasn't been following this over at Kitebuilder?
Yes, first one (in he project) that is done. There was an issue with the black ripstop that was bought. Only once it was cut did an imperfection in the weave show up. It was not noticed until Barry started to sew some test strips from those rolls (2 of the three rolls ordered). So he had everyone stop until he could recut and replace all of the black pieces (at his expense).

Careful, I heard Barry has one person in court already, may just be rumor. Derivative works and all. I'd wonder if in the cells would be there right place, how about on the keels themselves? A couple circle vents toward the rear to relieve pressure on the keels themselves.
Completely untrue. There are some people who would rather not see Barry help others make their own kites. I'm guessing you may have heard some FUD started by those people. Barry put a lot of work into this design, made it free to those who wanted to build the kite and just does not want to see it incorporated into some kite out of China. The plans call for 8 vents per cell and I only added 4 as I knew I'd be flying in light winds and that I could always add more (can't take away vents). There is no problem with modifying (or tuning) the kite for the conditions it will be flown in.



[/quote]
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« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2010, 08:55 AM »

That's why I stated rumor, Barry is putting a whole bunch of work into this at no personal profit and is in fact covering a few dollars of the kit price himself on each and every kit he sells. For those not aware you can build this kite yourself, the kit comes all precut, you just need to provide the sewing skills and notions. Barry has worked out the best deal possible on a bulk sale of first quality fabric, he precuts everything in your choice of colors and sells it to you at below his cost for the fabric. You can't beat that with a stick.

 Cool
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tcope
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« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2010, 09:24 AM »

That's why I stated rumor, Barry is putting a whole bunch of work into this at no personal profit and is in fact covering a few dollars of the kit price himself on each and every kit he sells. For those not aware you can build this kite yourself, the kit comes all precut, you just need to provide the sewing skills and notions. Barry has worked out the best deal possible on a bulk sale of first quality fabric, he precuts everything in your choice of colors and sells it to you at below his cost for the fabric. You can't beat that with a stick.
Well, you are correct... but I would choose different words so that the intentions are not misunderstood. Barry is not "selling" anything. I'd also shy away from saying that he's sending out a kit (though, that would be correct).

The "project" does have certain "qualifications" and is for people who have met certain criteria. So it's not really open to just anyone. It's also limited. The intention is to simply get big kites into the air... period.

I just don't want it to sound like a person has made up kits that can be sent to anyone that asks for them. Or that these "kits" are being sold as such.

I wanted to share some of the photos but also did not want to represent the kite as my own. Just giving credit where credit is due.
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« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2010, 05:20 AM »

No one has hinted that GKPI is unhappy with all this. But just to be clear, we are not.

More big kites on the field is a good thing. And we're pleased to see people make their own designs or variants of existing work when all the right permissions are in place.

After Barry did his BullDog project, he licensed the design to us for production (in China).

I'm also pleased to see more attention and discussion of the entire "copy question". For too long, design theft has been tolerated. Now everyone is more aware and that's good. I know Barry is sensitive to the question as well. The problem of course is that it is hard to determine where "emulation" ends and "inspiration" begins.

David
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« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2010, 07:47 AM »

I was wondering how you felt about all that Dave, being the de-facto supplier of large kites here. Glad to hear you don't feel it's cutting into your business, it is an entry into big kites for many who would otherwise shy away from the cost. Then it is addictive, once you have a big one the next one needs to be BIGGER and building them yourself is pretty involved, I'm betting a few people will be clicking into GKP more often in the future. I already see on the new project that tcope is saying he went to GKP to get the tails the kite needs  Wink

On the copy kites issue many people, Barry included are Copyrighting their design seeking protection. That really doesn't provide any protection legally as I read it. But for myself it shows their intent and I understand the cost of a Patent is higher then they could ever realize through sales, so I respect the designers intent and stated wishes. I do feel though that contracting somebody to build you a kite for your personal use, when you don't have the ability to build it yourself, from a plan available under the personal use only statement doesn't really break with the designers wishes. We've had discussion before, it's a gray area. Somebody building a kite from those same plans then offering it for sale is another story and not acceptable.

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« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2010, 10:02 AM »

No one has hinted that GKPI is unhappy with all this. But just to be clear, we are not.
A little confusing as you are participating in the project.

Do I understand how a kite company could not like that someone is helping people build kites? Certainly. But I guess you'd also need to be "unhappy" with every kite supplier, every other kite retailer and anyone who has helped someone else build a kite.

David... I think what some of the "unhappy" folks may not be willing to admit is that these projects can (and _DO_) help kite vendors! For my Wk420 where did I buy tails from? Would I have bought tails if I did not have such a kite (the answer is no)? Where have all of the materials for these kites come from?

There are a handful of well known kite retailers. I can count on one hand from the number of place I buy from. Just yesterday I posted a response from a person in a kite club who wanted to build a kite for KAP. I sent out some information that may lead him to buy kite materials... that is a good thing. But I also pointed out that he could spend $100 in materials and 15 hours labor or he could buy something like a Double DC for less. I mentioned a few places he could get a good deal.

So people can be "unhappy" about people who want to help others build big kites but at the end of the day I see it as nothing but a good thing. These big kites get out to festivals and it really gets people energized and wanting to get into flying kites. At the end of the day, that is _always_ a good thing.

As far as the "copying" going... _I_ see this as nothing more then people who have nothing better to do with their time. Dave, I completely understand your important position on this issue... but I also see that your view is mainly on people just flat outright copying your (and other peoples) products and basically selling them as rip offs. Those idiots who could not even come up with their own pictures of their knock offs... I want to kick them in the nuts! They are scum. I won't get into it here and I won't bore everyone with other kites... I'll just say that the Stealth kite is _not_ like other kites (at least no more then the other hundreds of thousands of kites out there are like each other). Yes, it's _based_ on other kites... _every_ kite is (read that again). But there is also no doubt that the Stealth even has additional designs that other kites don't. The concept was to make a large form kite that did not require 200' fence magnets... I mean tails. Its a kite that many people can fly in confined spaces. There have been countless hours/days/weeks/months spent on the design.

Dave, I certainly appreciate and respect your post.
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Todd Copeland
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« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2010, 10:31 AM »

Thanks guys! Hope I was clear --

"No one has hinted that GKPI is unhappy with all this. But just to be clear, we are not."

We are not UNhappy....

David
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« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2010, 10:37 AM »

I thought your post was a little "strange" but turns out... for a different reason.  Smiley

I did not read that correct but I'm going to try to save face and say that it was worded a little unusual.

At least now I have my day planned out... I'll be spending it trying to get my foot out of my mouth!
« Last Edit: November 04, 2010, 10:46 AM by tcope » Logged

Todd Copeland
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« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2010, 10:44 AM »

On the copy kites issue many people, Barry included are Copyrighting their design seeking protection. That really doesn't provide any protection legally as I read it. But for myself it shows their intent and I understand the cost of a Patent is higher then they could ever realize through sales, so I respect the designers intent and stated wishes.
I think the intent was the ability to keep the idea in the "open" status. That is, to prevent someone from coming along, making a commercial kite with that design and then telling other people that they could no longer make a kite like that. I'm told a patent is really tough to obtain. A copyright is easier. It's just an attempt to have something in place that shows where the idea came from. That is, it won't prevent "bad" things from happening but at least there is a record of the idea.

I fit right into the nitch that you named... in all of the time I've been flying kites I've always wanted a big SLK. There is simply no way I could ever afford one and I don't have the ability to make one (by "ability" I also mean the smarts). The kite as my avatar is my pride and joy. It's really a dream come true. It's fun to fly but I'll tell you... it was also a blast to build. In building kites you really come to understand (and appreciate) what goes into a design... what goes into the construction, what kind of crazy a person needs to be in order to do something like that. People ask me all of the time if I'd make or sell a large SLK. Not in your life! I'll leave that up to the people who are kite retailers!
« Last Edit: November 04, 2010, 10:54 AM by tcope » Logged

Todd Copeland
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« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2010, 11:52 AM »

I did not read that correct but I'm going to try to save face and say that it was worded a little unusual.

I'll give you that -- with my apologies!

Susie says I sometimes phrase things oddly in a vain attempt to sound profound. She says it doesn't work.... Wink

As I said above, we're fine with people making their own kites. I don't see it as a conflict with our business -- as long as they don't duplicate stuff we produce or infringe on other designers. In fact, we see more large kites in the sky as complimenting or even promoting GKPI.

I've enjoyed watching Barry's kite "projects" evolve.

I understand that large kites are expensive. Try making one and you'll understand why!! Hopefully, those makers will come to use for tails, line, or accessories. If not, they may still excite other potential customers.

Thanks again!

David
« Last Edit: November 04, 2010, 11:59 AM by DGomberg » Logged
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