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Author Topic: Breaking stuff  (Read 4522 times)
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WinterDaze
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« on: March 28, 2009, 05:55 PM »

Hi All,

Here's a general question,

Where does/did breaking stuff fit into development?

I've heard some talk about it being at the start of the curve, when inputs were somewhat academic and trial and error were your best friend.

And others (quite experienced), who have got into breaking stuff as the tricks/combos got harder and inputs needed to be on the edge of what a kite can take in order to get particular tricks to work.

Is it something you grow out of or in to?
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WinterDaze AoF
Will Sturdy
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« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2009, 06:12 PM »

You both grow into and out of it.

At first, a new flier with a fragile kite will break stuff.

As he gets better control, he breaks less stuff.

Eventually he starts breaking more again, because he tries new things which are liable to break spars (cynique, fast landings...)

I didn't break much last spring/early summer, but at some point for some reason I started breaking stuff again, and broke a ton of spars.

I haven't broken anything after that rash though, I think I have been good for 5 or 6 months now.

It may be the kites/spars I am using. I spent most of last year flying the saber, with G-force SUL LLEs. It also is very heavy, so it puts a lot of stress on the frame.
Recently I have been working with epee prototypes, which <right now> are framed in P series tubes. It is also a slightly smaller kite that is significantly lighter.

It also depends on the pilot. Some of us are more violent than others.
Because I make most of the kites I fly, I don't worry too much about breaking them. That makes my kites last a much shorter length of time, as I have no qualms about trying new stuff, occasionally with not-quite-nice results.

How's that for a non-answer  Undecided
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Adicakes
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« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2009, 06:13 PM »

Grow out of for me.  It's largely due to three things:

1) Getting enough practice so that you stop doing silly things like lawn darts and whacking the LLE into the ground if the tip is wrapped.

2) Getting the timing right on your inputs which in turn means that the inputs themselves can be made with less force.

3) Knowing what type of moves put what degree of stress on the kite and adjusting your flying accordingly.  For example, Im not going to bang on the lines for a double lazy when I know the kite has 2PT spreaders.
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lylenc
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« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2009, 09:12 AM »

Check the kite every now and then to be sure all fittings are still fully seated and properly aligned. Ground work and lawn darts can tend to pop things loose or nudge fittings out of position. This makes them easier to break while under stress or even while flying straight and normal. A few extra walks of shame are cheaper than a walk of re-frame.
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Craig     Walla Walla, WA     Just One More!
hedgewarden
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« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2009, 08:53 PM »

After two seasons, I finally broke a spar.  A wind gust drove my Addiction into the ground before I could react.  Shattered the spine.  So, I guess I feel a little more accomplished.  Cool

Now, if Steve would talk to me again  Cry, I might get the parts to repair it.

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zippy8
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« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2009, 11:03 PM »

I think it was on the previous incarnation of this forum that is was argued by a certain no longer active kite maker that it was possible to break a kite and still have done everything right. I disagreed then and I disagree now.

If your kite breaks, then you've made a mistake somewhere. It might be in the kite selection for the wind, in assembly, in operation, whatever.*

The Cynique is an interesting example - no kite trick should lead to the destruction of your kite. If you break an LS (most commonly) doing this then you've messed up somewhere. Either your kite wasn't up to it or you weren't.

But here's the thing; stuff breaks, life goes on. When starting out you'll break stuff 'cos you don't know any better, when you advance you'll break stuff 'cos you're trying to improve. Andy Preston's advice on the Stranger video (at 5:04) remains as relevant today as it has always been.

Mike.
* there is of course the caveat that sometimes stuff breaks of its own free will. But that's just the universe messing with your head. Think of it as zero on the roulette wheel of life.
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Allen Carter
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« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2009, 11:47 PM »

If this guy is still breaking sticks every now and then, I'd say it's OK for us mere mortals to continue to stock spares.

Trick Kite Trick Freestyle


 Smiley

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Allen, AKA kitehead
rxburner
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« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2009, 03:26 PM »

Broke lots of rods, ripped some sails the first few years.... none since then (knock on wood).
Rx
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jaydub
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« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2009, 03:45 PM »

If this guy is still breaking sticks every now and then, I'd say it's OK for us mere mortals to continue to stock spares. Smiley
Allen,

Nice one. Watched the clip several times and always wondered how Tim made the sail flap like that, but never realised that he'd broken the LS. Doh. Smiley
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Tom P
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« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2009, 06:20 PM »



i think that it is prudent for beginners to keep the kite higher (away from the ground) more often (until they get better control).

Now i do a lot of hard landings and multiple coin toss things... but do not seem to break stuff near as much as i used to.  Sometimes it amazes me that the spars do not break. 

Now, in the spring, the ground is quite soft, so that allows one to get away with more; but it is more about knowing and controlling the limits of the kite.  The other day, right before quitting, i speared the kite deeply into the ground and really had to pull to get it out.  That was fun!  Tongue
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Will Sturdy
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« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2009, 07:40 PM »


Now, in the spring, the ground is quite soft, so that allows one to get away with more; but it is more about knowing and controlling the limits of the kite.  The other day, right before quitting, i speared the kite deeply into the ground and really had to pull to get it out.  That was fun!  Tongue

Many of the leading edges I have broken have come from getting the spar stuck in the much and trying to take off. Normally the fields I fly on are pretty much solid, which works fine, but when it rains and they get a bit soft that is when I really have to pay attention, as the torque makes it really easy to snap tips off.
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DWayne
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« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2009, 04:31 PM »

Hi All,

Here's a general question,

Where does/did breaking stuff fit into development?

Is it something you grow out of or in to?

For me it must be something I'll grow into.  Cry
The only thing I've broke so far is a 2mm carbon roll bar.  Cool

Denny

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WinterDaze
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« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2009, 07:40 PM »

Hey all,

Is it possible that I might have spoken to soon  Wink Cheesy...

After 2 glorious days of flying over the Easter break, and I mean glorious; clear skys, steady winds for 4-5 hours each day and good folk around to enjoy it with...

On day 2 I managed to take out 2  Huh of my kites: first the Talon, not sure how, but broke the spine (the ferrule at the center T) but luckily with no sail damage  Smiley so that sadly got retired for the rest of the day.

So from there I turned to the less trickable but still great to fly QPro std for the next 2 hours. As the winds died down I thought it was time to pull out a SUL, and not my normal 'go to' yellow one, no, I went the 'Pink', just to see it up... well 15 mins latter it was down, one broken LLE right at the APA  Cheesy (again, no sail damage)


So here are some of the lessons that I learned yesterday....

1... Carry spares...

2... Remember to attach the bridle line to the LLE before complete reassembly Roll Eyes because you really only want to have to 'manage' that APA fitting once onto a 2PT LLE, particularly if you've applied sunscreen that day....

3... And finally, Oh and this is a good one... when managing an APA onto (and off) a 2PT LLE (for the third time), rubber palmed gloves are a very good option and take a lot of the work out of the job!!!  Cool

It really was a great 2 days Grin Grin Grin Cool Cool Cool

Regards,

WD

Now wheres my Leatherman Angry I got me a Talon to fix.... MWAhaaahaaahaa
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WinterDaze AoF
WinterDaze
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« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2009, 10:24 PM »

Talon sorted as well now!  Grin
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WinterDaze AoF
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« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2009, 04:39 PM »

Hi Everyone
First time on this forum and its nice to see a few familiar names about. I fly in Melbourne Australia and took up the sport about 6-7 months ago.
In that time I have splintered a spine on a Quantum and broken 2 female spreaders on an E2. The female spreader problem was I THINK! due too loosenes in the sail and moving about of the APA fittings. Tightened everything up and had 4-5 hours of trouble free flying over the easter break. (Your spot on WD it was glorious and steady)

Still relatively new at things and am looking forward to reading everyones Posts. Smiley

P.S Can't wait till Saturday morning. If the weather holds up, bought myself a new Deep Space thats itching to come out of the bag. (Gee this kite thing can get expensive, but as they say the fun outweighs the cost..... Grin)
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