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Author Topic: Addiction Mod  (Read 4211 times)
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rickks
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« on: July 09, 2010, 08:22 PM »

Addiction Mods
I think there some post's on the old forum with details about making modifications (mostly frame changes) to the Premier Addiction, I was wondering if anyone still has that information or knows where to find it.
Thanks, Rick
« Last Edit: July 09, 2010, 08:26 PM by rickks » Logged

browndude3649
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« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2010, 11:07 PM »

direct link removed ~ Google Harbor Wind Kite Company - check under HP Kitecrafters - Kite Modifications


Havent done it myself, but if you do, lemme know how it comes out!
« Last Edit: July 09, 2010, 11:19 PM by mikenchico » Logged
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« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2010, 11:52 PM »


Hey browndude364,
Thanks for your input, I have seen the Harbor Wind mod thing, they are not really saying how to mod the kite,but they will do it for you.
I think  that the "what to do" was posted  on the old GWTW forum.

Hadge (GWTW forum) talks about his modded Addicton:
Quote
Mostly messing around with bridles but I have a seriously modded Premier Addiction - partial reframe, 2 piece lower spreader and bridle mods - Takes most of the squirrel out of it and makes it a very nice little kite. Also I've just about finished modding the new HQ Jive 2 so the darn thing flies properly!  Frame mods, extra stand-offs and redesigned bridle.
audiorob (Kitelife Forum) said in part:
Quote

First thing that was important was to add a thick dacron "bandaid" over the nose. This was for 2 reasons, it desperately needed to be reinforced, and the slight addition of weight helped balance the kite a surprising amount.

Then I replaced the spine with .1960 pultruded graphite. Tried nearly everything under the sun and this gave the best results.

You know that weird lower spreader on the addiction? Well I dont know about you but the spine moved side to side to side constantly.Throwing the kite completely off balance. So, simply replace that single long 5mm rod with .1960 pultruded graphite and a standard 0.196 center-t. I made mine aprox 1" longer (that's 0.5" on each side) than the default to tension the sail slightly more.

The upper spread I tried, once again, just about everything. And the default 5mm worked best.

Now changing the bridle is up to you, I adjusted the connection points above the connectors. Also the adjustment portion (not sure of the correct word) of the brdiel constantly slipped so I added 3 knots to keep adjustments. The second most extreme setting gave sharp, accurate turns for me. If you take a look at it, im sure you can figure out what Im talking about.

So maybe it's just change out the center-t and a few rods.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2010, 07:04 AM by rickks » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2010, 03:29 AM »

These are the sites you need,

http://kitelife.com/forum/topic/621-addiction-mods-ive-done/page__p__4332__hl__%2Bpremier+%2Baddiction__fromsearch__1#entry4332

http://kitelife.com/forum/index.php?/topic/563-how-to/page_hl_premier addiction_...

I've done these mods to my Addiction and it's a much nicer kite.


Harbour wind Kite do a Stage 1 and Stage 2 upgrade at $30 each. Someone else on the forum (Mike W?) has just had these done and says they made a big difference but made it a bit twitchy.

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« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2010, 06:25 AM »


 Thanks Hadge, I had seen the audiorob post (frame changes) but not the MADKITER post (bridle changes) there is enough information there (between the two Kitelife posts) to get started on modding the Addiction...for certain.
 Any additional Addiction information anyone may have would also be welcome.
Thanks, Rick
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« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2010, 06:39 AM »

Hey Norm,
Well I'm gonna do some changes to the Addiction (hopefully the correct ones)
so all he mods and how they affected the Addiction are welcome.
Did you get a chance to fly the Emotion? I am interested in knowing,if you think the mods helped Smiley or...not Sad ...or whatever.
I will send you email and ask for the Addiction mods you have from the old forum. 
Thanks,Rick
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« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2010, 09:37 AM »

Hi Norm,
  Wow, If ever there was a understatement...
Quote
I have e-mailed you a gaboooon of mod info for the Addiction.
this is it.
You could title your e-mail "Every thing you ever wanted to know about the Addiction but were afraid to ask"  Smiley
 If I think of anything... Grin
Thanks Norm
Rick
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« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2010, 06:49 AM »


I had the Mods 1 & 2 done by Harbor Wind and Kite and the "twitchyness" I described to Hadge that I first experienced in low winds, say 2-4 mph, was tuned out by Ed of HWK, a very friendly and helpful guy who gave me his cell phone number to call him when I was out flying if I had questions about tuning.

I am not sure which mod does which but what was done to my Addiction were all subtle changes that improved the 'precision' of the kite. I am a novice with under 20 hours flying so all I can comment on is how much better I could control the kite and how much more precise the turns were when modded.

The "problem" I described as "twitchy" was tuned out by using the shortest of the 3 upper spreaders to reduce the tension in the leading edge. From the shortest to the longest of the spreaders the difference is only 1/4" (i.e 1/8" diff. between each) - I presume one 1/8" shorter and one 1/8" longer then stock. This change was combined with setting the upper bridle attachment point closer to the leading edge (using the provided trimmer - 3 sets in the mods).

Just fyi... the other mods include 'lowering' all the bridal attachment points, trimming the outer standoffs (I presume to shape the trailing edge of the sail) and to change the way the tension is applied to the trailing edge of the sail to remove flutter.

All things considered, the mods are kind of pricy - not for what you get but that with the cost of the original kite you're in for over $130. You can buy alot of nice kites for that much.
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no amount of money can make up for alot of practice
normofthenorth
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« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2010, 11:20 AM »

What is there about people named Norm that attracts them to the Addiction, and to modifying it?

I contacted Jon Trennepohl (Addiction designer or co-designer) and bought a frame-mod kit from his (and his wife's) kite store, maybe ~7 yrs ago. It was a nice kit, seemed to make the kite lighter and stiffer. Unfortunately, I got some other kites at the same time (and I race sailboats fanatically all summer, too!), so I never have put much mileage on the mod'd Addiction. Sad

If somebody wants a mod'd Addiction (preferably near Toronto, ON), make me an offer!
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Norm in Toronto
rickks
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« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2010, 01:45 PM »

 Smiley  just when you think, What more could be done to the Addiction.

I must say that this "smaller kite"...
chilese:
Quote
Smaller Sport Kites
on: June 29, 2010, 12:49 PM Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I guess we need a definition of "smaller".

Let's set 7 ft (2.133 m) as the changeover from small to large.

certainly made a large impact in it's day...wow... maybe it still does.

Rick
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« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2010, 11:03 PM »

Still in the stores I've been in lately, Premier still carries it and it is a pretty decent introductory kite at a $70 price point, pretty indestructable, RTF with properly sized Spectra lines and straps, and packaging to compete with Prisms on the shelf. Very cool to that Jon will pass along mods to take it up a step or two for those who are ready for more but not ready to jump in with both feet.

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« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2010, 12:43 PM »

Yes the Addiction is still around,hard to keep a good kite down...I think...anyway I thought I would post "some" of the modding info that I received, in case some of you are interested.
There is really way to much information to try and post here at one time so here is some of it.
 Topic author: JCByrne
Subject: Addiction mod
Posted on: April 25 2006 8:19:43 PM
Message:


Was asked to put this here so more people could see it so here goes.
This is a real easy mod but it changes the Addiction alot like night and day. It flies so much better you won't believe it until you do one.here goes first you need either p90 or p100 skyshark wrapped rods.cut these to 24 inches each so now you have 4 rods 24 inches long.Need a couple of 3 to 4inch internal ferrels and 2 end caps for these and also new arrow nocks.will also need new spreader connectors APA are best. the thing to remember on these is you are still using the original spreaders so don't get them to large. the hardest part of this whole modification is stretching the connectors so they will slide onto the rods.and just put everything you took off like the bridle and the leading edge tensioner go back on the same way they came off.the thing is if you try and cut the tubes other tha 24 inces each you will have to modify the leading edge tensioner and posibly the bridle.than just glue the c-clips in the stock locations and your done.On mine i used a bridle off a New Tech New Jam a little tweaking later it flies great.Real easy to do tricks with and flies straight no quirks to speak of..The stock bridle works just fine but I figured I went this far why not go a little farther and try a new style bridle too. The up side to all this was that I had a kite the was very easy to do tricks with they just kinda fall into place.all my other kite are a little bit harder to do the same tricks with.It is just an out standing trick kite now i couldn't believe the diference just replacing the tubes did for the kite.It flies in light winds to 3mph upto 20+ mph without folding up.Tips might shake at the higher end but it still works fine. also would be a good idea to hang a set of stoppers on it so the lines will stay put on the roll-ups.Personally anyone who tries this won't be disappointed at all.twos spent and you have a reall good trick kite that you can count on to do what you want.and it does man I can keep going but I won't bore you folks any further. as always smooth winds be good LATER JOHN

Replies:



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Reply author: herbalizer
Replied on: April 25 2006 8:53:57 PM
Message:

so what did you use? p90 or p100's?

i'll try the mod.


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Reply author: JCByrne
Replied on: April 25 2006 9:42:04 PM
Message:

P90's I believe


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Reply author: Atlanta2
Replied on: April 26 2006 03:17:17 AM
Message:

Addiction was my 1st kite and it was well flown. Fittings were loose and last November Jon T helped me put together a reframe kit with P90's and a bigger spine, nocks etc. Recently I put it all together everything was there and wow what an amazing difference. Kite still clearly the Addiction only better. Don't remember all the spec's I have since lost my notes I made on scrap paper. But it's clear I'm not the only one who has installed this mod on an Addiction. I would rate as a must try for any Addiction fan.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Addiction Reframe

Printed from: GWTW Online Forums
Topic URL: http://www.gwtw-kites.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10317
Printed on: August 20 2006

Topic:



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Topic author: rbjensen
Subject: Addiction Reframe
Posted on: September 18 2003 8:48:11 PM
Message:


I got my Addiction reframed and flew it tonight. Winds were lightly gusting about 1 to 4mph. The kite was a bit flippy in this light wind, but I could fly it OK. The kite needs a little more wind than before due to the heavier frame, so I would shift the low end of Andrew's wind range to 3 or 4 mph.

It is probably obvious, but doing the reframe is well worth it. This makes the kite more comparable to something like the Frenezy, and it feels much more solid. The sail is nylon, but certainly good enough quality. Andrew points out in his review the downsides of the flexy frame it comes with. Another great advantage of reframing is that you can use a two piece lower spreader and two piece leading edge. The leading edge is 48" and the lower spreaders are 24". When disassembled you have a great travel kite that folds up to a little over 2 ft, feels decent, and does all the tricks.

I used .196 pultruded framing. You can reuse the connectors -- they are a little tight, but seem durable enough. This is what you need:

3 x 48" .196 Avia (LEs and LSs)
1 x 30.5" .196 Avia (spine)
1 x 29.5 .157 or .180 (US)
Center Tee for .196
2 x Avia safety nocks for .196
4 x end caps for .196 (1 for each LE and two for spine)
2 x aluminum ferrules for .196 (for two piece LEs)
6 x 5mm c-clips (1 for each LE connector and 2 for center Tee)

This should cost about $25 and GWTW has it all.

You can optionally get the TAPA LE connectors, but I reused all the LE and standoff connectors that came with the kite with no problem.
The sail tensioners and leech line are also fine as is and go on easily.

I look forward to flying this in heavier wind. I was able to get nice backspins and jacobs ladders tonight. Not enough wind to assess precision qualities. If you like the Addiction, I am sure it is worth doing the reframe making this a serious small 6 footer, more on par with slightly larger kites like the Fanatic or Frenezy. I will see as I get more air time.

Brent
Santa Cruz, CA
My Kite Page

Replies:



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Reply author: Mauler
Replied on: September 19 2003 12:42:01 AM
Message:

Keep us updated on the flight qualities. Looks like a worthwhile thing to do.

I'm curious about the "heavier frame." According to the Avia specs, the 4mm solid carbon rods are almost identical in weight to the .196 pultruded stock. Why do you say the frame is heavier?

Andrew
Buffalo, NY


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Reply author: rbjensen
Replied on: September 19 2003 11:31:22 AM
Message:

Good point. I didn't weigh the kite so I don't know for sure. It just seemed a little heavier, but perhaps due to the wind conditions. I hope to get some better flying in over the weekend.

Brent
Santa Cruz, CA
My Kite Page


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Reply author: Mauler
Replied on: September 19 2003 11:46:04 AM
Message:

The other question I have is: why replace the lower spreaders? The single-piece lower spreader that comes with the kite should just be able to be cut in half and used as is, right? Sure, it's not very expensive just to buy some more, but the existing one should work just fine cut in half. Another thing is the upper spreader -- it seems fine just as a 4mm solid carbon rod. I guess I don't see why it would have to be changed to a .157 or .180 pultruded spar. That might actually change the overall balance, which I happen to think is pretty near perfect as it is.

I'm thinking that it might have seemed heavier because of the faster response in the frame. It might just be reacting faster so it appears "flippier." Who knows.

All I know is, keep me updated with your experiments. I really like the kite just the way it is, but if it can be improved without affecting the balance and flight behavior, I'm all ears.

BTW, have you tried shortening the spreader at all? It seems like it would be a cheap thing to test out and it might behave well.

Andrew
Buffalo, NY


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Reply author: randyg
Replied on: September 19 2003 11:58:15 AM
Message:

Maybe Jon will read this and introduce an Addiction Pro??!!

Randy



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Reply author: RonG
Replied on: September 19 2003 12:02:25 PM
Message:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by randyg

Maybe Jon will read this and introduce an Addiction Pro??!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I flew Jon's prototype Addiction (pre-production) last year at Nationals. Very, very nice. Not entirely sure how it was framed, but it could do every trick I could and then some.


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Reply author: Mauler
Replied on: September 19 2003 12:07:02 PM
Message:

If Ron says it's "very, very nice," then you know I ain't lyin'

Think of it this way, Ron: it could only have gotten better since you flew the pre-production prototype! And you're absolutely right on target about the trick capability. I really dig this kite a lot.

Andrew
Buffalo, NY


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Reply author: Mauler
Replied on: September 19 2003 12:08:17 PM
Message:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by randyg

Maybe Jon will read this and introduce an Addiction Pro??!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Yes, I think it's called the "ADX"

Depending on Brent's reviews of the reframe test, I'll do it myself and check it out.

Andrew
Buffalo, NY


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Reply author: sbixby
Replied on: September 19 2003 12:10:39 PM
Message:

I just ordered an Addiction to have around at the office, so I can go fly at the tiny park just down the street on days when I cycle to work, without my kite bag of course. I'll pick it up at Baylands on Saturday, where I can beg Brent to let me try his and feel the diff's.

Steven Bixby - El Sobrante, CA


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Reply author: icenum
Replied on: September 19 2003 4:08:28 PM
Message:

First few times I flew the kite I knew I'd like it. I did my first roll ups with it after flying it about an hour or so. Very impressive trickster, its fast but at times I like a fast smaller kite. I still have it in my bag. After more feedback on the re-frame, I may do mine also. Really nice kite for the $$, possible after installing frame it might need bridle changes or mods?


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Reply author: rbjensen
Replied on: September 20 2003 01:02:50 AM
Message:

In the reframe, I was going for stiffness. I was not sure about the quality of the rods the kite came with and assumed they would not be as good as Avia. With other kites in this price range I have found the rods to be quite flexible and lower quality. So I just wanted to replace it all with Avia. The LSs that the Addiction comes with do seem to be pretty good, though. I also wanted as little flex as possible for the US.
So actually, all you really need to replace is the LEs, so for the minimum reframe, just get two 48" .196, the two ferrules, 4 c-clips, two end caps, and two nocks. That should get it down to $15 or so.

I have been using a shorter US to straighten the upper LE (also why I wanted it stiffer). I noticed today, that this is causing the leading edge of the sail to billow out and backwind, so it may be too short. Turns aren't as tight and in some conditions, axels seemed to stall part way through. I am going try a longer US again and compare.

I was flying again today in those same 1 to 4 conditions, and perhaps the low wind range has not been affected afterall. You may be right there Andrew. The kite did better in the low winds than my Level Two Sunrise, which I also flew. The winds were still too erratic to draw definite conclusions, but the kite was sure fun to fly. Balance still seems fine, though I may not be quite as sensitive to the subtleties as some. Fades locked in great, lazy susans were flat, Jacobs and backspins just flowed right along. So at least the balance is still in the ballpark.

Brent
Santa Cruz, CA
My Kite Page


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Reply author: Jim B.
Replied on: September 20 2003 10:34:22 PM
Message:

If I decide to do anything, it will be to replace the le's with 4mm (.1570)
tube. They would compare favorably with skinnies in terms of weight and would be stiff enough for a kite of that size; certainly stiffer than the current le's.

NYC



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Reply author: Mauler
Replied on: September 21 2003 06:49:18 AM
Message:

Jim, by all means, give it a shot. But it occurs to me that the light-wind performance of the kite is excellent right now. To lower the weight even further by changing the spars to .157 tubes would really reduce the mass that's needed for tricking. Right now, I'd call the current weight distribution "perfect."

As a side note, I got an email from Jon Trennepohl saying that if he were to reframe the kite, he would use .180 pultruded as a minimum. I personally think .157 is a little too small, but obviously you can do what you want. Please let us know what you find out.

Andrew
Buffalo, NY


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reply author: Jim B.
Replied on: September 21 2003 12:43:33 PM
Message:

I was wondering if the Addiction might be just a bit too big for the 4mm. I am not too concerned with losing weight: more with adding some stiffness. It works really well in the Jordana, as you know, but there is a fairly significant difference in size. Hmm. It's cheap to do, so it's worth a shot. Time to get out the tape measure.

NYC



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Reply author: Jim B.
Replied on: September 21 2003 6:04:45 PM
Message:

I pulled the Addiction out of the trunk and flew it this Evening, moved the bridle attachment point above the upper spreader connectors too. Other than that, I think I will leave it alone for now. It really is quite a bit larger than the Jordana. 4mm might be wishful thinking. P series might be nice though.

NYC



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Reply author: rbjensen
Replied on: September 22 2003 1:24:11 PM
Message:

Flies great with the .196 frame. Still good low wind performance and the flexing is no longer an issue. I flew it in heavier gusty winds on Sat, and the kite did fine. It is still small and light, so it gets thrown around a bit in the gusts and certainly is not as solid as a larger kite, but it was fun to fly, and I was still able to pull off the tricks. And they look good too. Last night I had a steady 4 to 5mph breeze and that kite was in heaven. I see no reason for a lighter frame, unless your are trying to fly in the 1-2-3 mph wind range.

This kite is so nice for backspins. I can actually do them consistently and there is control. I can slow them down a little, speed them up, try to get them flatter, make them rise or fall, etc.
The first kite I have really been able to do this with.
Of course stuff like axels, flatspins, multi-lazies, flic-flacs, and jacobs ladders are relatively easy and look good too.

Precision stuff, though -- not really. The Frenezy (and even the big brother ADX) is much better in that department. This kite inspires freestyle tricking, not precision figures.

Brent
Santa Cruz, CA
My Kite Page


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reply author: icenum
Replied on: September 22 2003 7:21:23 PM
Message:

Jim explain what you did in detail if possible on bridle
I've decided to leave the upper & lower spreader as they are, and try either a 1800 pultruded, on the leading edges and the spine or the newer P90's Sky Shark rods if they prove not to be too stiff.
Seeing how the kite needs the weight at the LE (4mm solid rods)in the LE for proper momemtum hopefully the 1800 or P-90 might would compensate nicely If I get the kite to stiff I will have excessive oversteer,and it won't be able to pull camber into leading edges.
Now 1800 pultruded, or the P90's?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Reply author: Jim B.
Replied on: September 22 2003 9:36:57 PM
Message:

just move the loops at the upper bridle attachment point on the leading edge above the upper spreader connectors from their stock position below the upper spreader connectors Dan. That's it.

NYC
« Last Edit: July 23, 2010, 07:57 PM by rickks » Logged

Fast EDDY
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« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2010, 11:53 AM »


I had the Mods 1 & 2 done by Harbor Wind and Kite and the "twitchyness" I described to Hadge that I first experienced in low winds, say 2-4 mph, was tuned out by Ed of HWK, a very friendly and helpful guy who gave me his cell phone number to call him when I was out flying if I had questions about tuning.

I am not sure which mod does which but what was done to my Addiction were all subtle changes that improved the 'precision' of the kite. I am a novice with under 20 hours flying so all I can comment on is how much better I could control the kite and how much more precise the turns were when modded.

The "problem" I described as "twitchy" was tuned out by using the shortest of the 3 upper spreaders to reduce the tension in the leading edge. From the shortest to the longest of the spreaders the difference is only 1/4" (i.e 1/8" diff. between each) - I presume one 1/8" shorter and one 1/8" longer then stock. This change was combined with setting the upper bridle attachment point closer to the leading edge (using the provided trimmer - 3 sets in the mods).

Just fyi... the other mods include 'lowering' all the bridal attachment points, trimming the outer standoffs (I presume to shape the trailing edge of the sail) and to change the way the tension is applied to the trailing edge of the sail to remove flutter.

All things considered, the mods are kind of pricy - not for what you get but that with the cost of the original kite you're in for over $130. You can buy alot of nice kites for that much.


   Wow Kinda Pricey for 50 Bucks. and 3 hours of my time.

  Lets see you got Two new leading edges, Two new top spreaders. Two new sets of trimmers. That have been Tested in the WIND and completely flown by myself and others for the kite to "Properly" trick right. A retied Bridal. A set of Yo Yo Stoppers. A New Trailing edge wind trim knot set for higher winds up to about 24 MPH and your kite will Fly on the original 80Lb 80ft lines. A completely Reset sail on the frame with new tension. The pressure point moved and the stand offs changed. Plus the time it takes to do all that in the first place.
   WOW sounds like a good deal and a whole new kite. Once you get to flying it and getting it in a back spin and a fade etc, You might just see a huge difference. Then again what do I know. I ran everything through Premier and Jon etc.

   Just a Thought, Not that I need to defend my work. The People who comment on it in the section do a great job on the differences that it makes all by themselves!~!~! I Look forward to others who I encourage to Post there Thoughts on my work. As I ask they do NOT Post all I have done! After all I did it to support my Business and teaching etc.

  Mr Ed
      Edited on The 8th of Sept.  Mr. Mike got Two new Leading edges in his Kite due to a Miss Communication between myself and the Owner of the shop! "WE" Do not usually do the leading edges! For most people have there own preferences, to what they like. As Many of you have read throughout this post! My personal Pref is a Hallow core .165 or a .171 which ever we have in stock. With all the original parts then drilled out to fit. Most people cant even tell there changed. 
« Last Edit: September 08, 2010, 11:48 PM by Fast EDDY » Logged
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« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2010, 08:45 PM »

I'm thinking that it is a lot of work to make all the changes listed below by Mr.Ed...
 Fast EDDY:
Quote
Wow Kinda Pricey for 50 Bucks. and 3 hours of my time.

  Lets see you get Two new leading edges, Two new top spreaders. Two new sets of trimmers. That have been Tested in the WIND and completely flown by myself and others for the kite to "Properly" trick right. A retied Bridal. A set of Yo Yo Stoppers. A New Trailing edge wind trim knot set for higher winds up to about 24 MPH and your kite will Fly on the original 80Lb 80ft lines. A Reset sail on the tensioned. The pressure point moved and the stand offs changed. Plus the time it takes to do all that in the first place.
   WOW sounds like a good deal and a whole new kite. and once you get to flying it and getting it in a back spin and a fade etc, You might just see a huge difference. Then again what do I know. I ran everything through Premier and Jon etc
Heck, I spent a couple of hours + (probably more) moving the bridle around and tie the legs to stablize/actvate the bridle and have not tested the kite in the air yet... so...have a good time.

The Kite mods that are posted here are for all the brave souls (DIY types)who want to take their kite apart (make their changes to the kite) and hope that it is better than it was before they messed with it. Smiley
 

 



« Last Edit: July 23, 2010, 08:52 PM by rickks » Logged

Fast EDDY
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Location: CA. Ventura

« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2010, 06:59 PM »

 Hey Norm

   Well I guess my Questions are these to you...

  1)  What do you think of the differences in YOUR Kite and My Kite???
  2)  Do you believe that the package is worth the money "If" someone is a Beginner as well as a Decent Flier???
  3)  Are you going to be Changing Your own personal addiction to meet the Changes?
  4)  Hard to Imagine this one. Do you still think its Better to learn with Heavy Hands or Lighter Hands while flying?
       ( after flying with myself and teaching ways? )

  Have fun Flying those Kites and get that new sail

  Mr ED
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