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Author Topic: What makes a 500 dollar kite?  (Read 14741 times)
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asburyparkjohn
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« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2010, 09:55 AM »

Well said DB. I would only add that once you get above the $250 mark it's what the kite can do for you and what you want out of the kite in terms of work input/trick output ... I fly Sea Devils but most if not all of them I bought used ... I own a pair of each from the Light Version up to Full Vent and own a single SUL & UL ... The Tranformer TL with extra 5PT sticks I paid $400 and the Tattoo I paid near $500 new ... NO REGRETS ...  I fly Lam kites primarily due to the small inputs required and they require LESS WORK to trick. There also seems to be no limits on the fact that it does this trick well and that trick not so well. Yes I am aware of the reverse INSANE differential between SD and Fearless but I guess Lam being a perfectionist he wanted that trick  more easily done on the SD ... hence the Fearless? as per his advertisement?  Cost is secondary and his kites are of great construction of course. At this price level ... they better be ... It seems its territorial also with R-Sky being in Europe and being more popular there with these PILOTS few would consider the Fearless worth $500 from these area codes. To be honest the SE and Talons have not come my way EASILY to test try AT ALL ... I will fly ANYTHING ONCE.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 09:57 AM by asburyparkjohn » Logged

In my kite inventory of Dual Line Kites: Benson - Inner Space, Signature Kite of Top Pilots on an Old Style Gemini ; L'Atelier xt.z. ; Fearless-Tatto (SSUL), Fearless - SUL, Light & Light-Vent , Transformer TL's: (SUL & Light), Transformer 2 SUL & UL.
Steve
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« Reply #31 on: August 04, 2010, 10:53 AM »

Quote
An E3 is a design based on "Looking good in the store" "how many of these can we sell" and "how can we make them cheap enough to so we can include a cool looking bag?" It's a business kite, a kite store kite. Can it trick? yeah it's O K if you like that sort of kite, comes with a nice bag though. If Mark put his effort into the performance of the kite instead of the shelf appeal, it would possibly be a great kite.

Wow!

A bit hypocritical don't you think?  Isn't it possible to defend Lam with out denigrating another designer?  Both Mark and Lam have done a good job of selling to their audiences.  Most in the business would agree no one has done a better job of that than Prism.   
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randyg
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« Reply #32 on: August 04, 2010, 11:26 AM »

There seemed to be a big jump in prices when the Nirvana came along, in that case much of the price was probably due to exchange rates, import duties etc. but it didn't take other mfrs long to catch up in the US & UK.

My first Nirvana cost less than $250 for whatever that's worth. It was priced very close to the Mamba I had purchased at about the same time. It was a while before the exchange rate began to climb, IIRC.

$500 is the most I ever paid for a kite and it was a 24 unit limited edition run framed with some fairly "bling worthy", at the time, rods. I still consider it the Ferrari of sportkites. It's encased in wood and glass now.  Cheesy
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Dolphinboy
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« Reply #33 on: August 04, 2010, 12:02 PM »

Quote
An E3 is a design based on "Looking good in the store" "how many of these can we sell" and "how can we make them cheap enough to so we can include a cool looking bag?" It's a business kite, a kite store kite. Can it trick? yeah it's O K if you like that sort of kite, comes with a nice bag though. If Mark put his effort into the performance of the kite instead of the shelf appeal, it would possibly be a great kite.

Wow!

A bit hypocritical don't you think?  Isn't it possible to defend Lam with out denigrating another designer?  Both Mark and Lam have done a good job of selling to their audiences.  Most in the business would agree no one has done a better job of that than Prism.   

Probably. I apologize for being too harsh. I think nothing bad about Mark and obviously he has done well making a product that sells. I try my best not to be disrespectful to anyone and after I reread that part, I could have made my point in a more respectful way. I think it's super important that there are affordable trick kites out there and I've had enjoyable times flying some of his kites too.

But my point is sincere. The E3 isn't designed or made to be the best. That's not where Prism was aiming and that's not wrong. But it is a fact and part of the answer to the OP.  Lam designed his Fearless with a whole different goal in mind. That is a fact too.

I still think that Prism spends way too much on the packaging of the product and less of the money on the product its self but it works business wise. Too me, the kite should be the end point and the bag shouldn't detract from the flying experience. So things like making a kite / bag combo that you have to break down the LEs every time you put it away etc. seem misguided. That's not for me and it's nothing more than my perspective. If I really liked the kite, I'd get a different sleeve for it but I'd still feel like I wasted money on the original bag laying around that should have been put into the kite. The way I see it, that's more about the image of the product than the actual performance of the kite. I believe these things based on my experience owning and using them, not to denigrate Mark.

Peace
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 12:04 PM by Dolphinboy » Logged


James -
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tpatter
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« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2010, 12:43 PM »

I'm confused about comments indicating that the E3, aside from price, flys and tricks as good as the Fearless.  It is just not the case and I wouldn't expect it to. 

The E3 is a good kite to learn the basics on, but I've flown the E3 and "it ain't no Fearless/Nirvana/TNT/Deepspace/SD" no matter who is flying it (in my opinion).

The E3 is really a FIRST kite, a kite like the Fearless is really a LAST kite!  Smiley
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6 kite tom
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« Reply #35 on: August 04, 2010, 01:28 PM »

The E3 is really a FIRST kite, a kite like the Fearless is really a LAST kite!  Smiley

Just to clarify.  Are you really saying the E3 could be considered a first kite?  I would expect a novice to have problems with the E3 and doubt if it could take any severe punishment that a newbie will hand out.

I would agree the E3 is more of an intermediate step along the lines to one of the exotic end points that exist.
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Dolphinboy
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« Reply #36 on: August 04, 2010, 02:00 PM »

Unless you're just drilling it time after time, day after day into the ground why wouldn't it hold up? It seems as durable as most cheap starter kites I've seen.

I think the main reason a E3 isn't a first kite for many is because $165 is still a lot of money to someone who just wants to try dual line flying out. Or a non kite flier. Where maybe $70-80 bucks is easier to justify. But if you find you're into it then the $125-200 range seems tolerable and is a easy next step up.
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James -
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« Reply #37 on: August 04, 2010, 02:15 PM »


Just to clarify.  Are you really saying the E3 could be considered a first kite?  I would expect a novice to have problems with the E3 and doubt if it could take any severe punishment that a newbie will hand out.


I guess I meant "the first real sport kite".  I had an Ignitor (I think I paid $25) for the first 20 hours or so and then got an E2, which I flew for over a year before getting another kite.  Those first few hours are pretty painful for a kite, I would think a Beetle or something similar would be the ideal very first dual line.


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6 kite tom
rxburner
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« Reply #38 on: August 04, 2010, 02:18 PM »

$500 for a Fearless?Huh
A bargain, I have 5..... and I think I need a couple more.
Oh yeah.... and then there are the Sea Devils.....

Prism Kites are a great place to start the journey and the trail leads us all to different destinations. I loved my E2, Elixirs, Vapor and QP. I still have a Zephyr, thank you Steve for putting me on the road, and thank you Lam for the sports car to drive on it.

Is there that much difference between an E3 and a Fearless?
That my friend is a matter of personal preference, you’re welcome to fly mine anytime and make up your own mind..
Rx
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 02:22 PM by rxburner » Logged
Skippy
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« Reply #39 on: August 04, 2010, 02:25 PM »

$500.00 breakdown:

1) Kite   = $300
2) Hype = $200  (Milk'em while you can  Grin)
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cids
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« Reply #40 on: August 04, 2010, 02:40 PM »

 Smiley
« Last Edit: August 05, 2010, 06:46 PM by cids » Logged

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Dolphinboy
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« Reply #41 on: August 04, 2010, 02:41 PM »

$500.00 breakdown:

1) Kite   = $300
2) Hype = $200  (Milk'em while you can  Grin)

I may buy a kite based on others opinions (hype?) or watching video. But I'd only buy another one based on performance. I own 4 kites made by Lam so I'm either drinking the Kool-Aide or tricking the crap out of the kites Grin
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James -
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rxburner
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« Reply #42 on: August 04, 2010, 03:01 PM »

$500.00 breakdown:

1) Kite   = $300
2) Hype = $200  (Milk'em while you can  Grin)

When you buy one and decide that it is indeed $200 worth of "Hype." I will gladly give you $300 for the kite.

Rx
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inewham
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« Reply #43 on: August 04, 2010, 03:52 PM »


Trying what? You don't have to buy them. Please don't bash the man by saying he's some how trying something. He gets what he can get for them. He loves kites and kiting and he's not getting rich but making his passion available to others.

By omitting the bit of Mike's post that I quoted you lose the fact that I was paraphrasing Mikes comment and you go on to imply some kind of slur against Lam, that isn't the case. Please don't try to read more into my post than what was actually written.

I find the debate about whether a 2 line kite (in the most generic sense) is worth $500 interesting but lets not turn this into another Fearless Fans vs. Cynics thread, thats been done to death.
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RobB
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« Reply #44 on: August 04, 2010, 04:03 PM »

Compared to other sports & recreational activities... kiting isn't expensive. A decent mountain bike starts at $2000, a lift ticket for a few hours of skiing is ~$100, the skis or snowboard setup is $1000 or more, what do golf clubs cost ? Greens fees ? Fishing poles... boats ?  There are bigger wastes of $$$ than a beautiful kite. How about a $500 night out on the town ? Nothing to show for that the next day...
Really, kiting is cheap for the number of hours that you'll get out of a $150 or a $500 kite. If you like it, buy it... it's only money, they'll print more !

A nice justification! Is that what you try and tell the wife?!  Wink Cheesy
Hey, whatever works... no, she put up with me racing cars, riding mountain bikes (I actually got her to let me have a hard tail and a soft tail) waterskiing, four wheeling and snowboarding over the last 23 years. She laughs when I think I'm going to be in trouble for buying another kite. I mean, a part for a mountain bike, car, a boat all cost more than a Lam kite. It's all where you decide to put your recreational dollars.

Aside from that, wasn't the Prism Vapor $500 WHEN it was in production ?
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