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Author Topic: landing with a wrapped tip  (Read 2079 times)
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bdhoun
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« on: October 27, 2010, 04:07 PM »

I will state that I am a newbie.  I've been flying for a couple months and can land when I need to.  I've been practicing my fades, by doing a flare and flipping into a fade.  I've tried some axels, but for some reason I usually wrap a tip.  I think it's because I am not popping hard enough to get the tip up and over the slack line.  But when I do wrap the tip, the kite usually spins out of control and hits the ground.  Anyway to stop this from happening?  And if I am on the ground with a wrapped tip, is their any way to easily unwrap and take off again, without manually unwrapping at the kite?

Thanks
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WinterDaze
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« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2010, 04:33 PM »

Hey BD,

The words to have playing in the back of your mind should 'probably' be "More slack with the off hand"...

Being I haven't see you flying it's a bit of a guess, but it's a pretty standard error to have as a noob, as to landing it after a tip wrap... Walk/jog/run(wind dependent) forward till it's on the ground.

Good luck out there

WD
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WinterDaze AoF
Ca Ike
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« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2010, 09:25 PM »

Boy do I remember those day's like it was yesterday.....wait it was yesterday Grin   First off I can tell you a tip wrap results from NOT ENOUGH slack.  Basically you don't slack the popping hand fast enough to drop the line before the tip snags.  Now as for recovering from a tip wrap it is possible if you pop both hands like you pumping the kite in low wind sometimes you can unwrap it but its not always successful.
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freecheese
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« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2010, 11:07 PM »

And if I am on the ground with a wrapped tip, is their any way to easily unwrap and take off again, without manually unwrapping at the kite?

Yes! Get the wrapped wing pointing toward you, this requires some nudging and coaxing. Then, give the wrapped line some short, gentle tugs, trying different angles until you get the line off. If you pull instead of tug, you'll just drag the kite toward you. Some kites have knots and other protuberances at the wing tip that may catch the lines, making it very difficult to free them.

It's really frustrating at first, but you'll master it eventually and practically eliminate the walk of shame. And the silver lining? Each time you wrap a tip, it's a great opportunity to practise your recovery! I'm really good at recovery...
« Last Edit: October 27, 2010, 11:12 PM by freecheese » Logged
KaoS
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« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2010, 12:53 AM »

... I've tried some axels, but for some reason I usually wrap a tip.  I think it's because I am not popping hard enough to get the tip up and over the slack line.  ...


It isn't because you are not popping hard enough.  It is because the wingtip coming forward is not higher than the flying line.  You can overcome this two ways

1. Immediately after the "pop", give a heap of slack to both lines so they drop under the wingtip that is rotating forward

2. Don't start the axel with the nose of the kite pointed vertically.  Instead point the kite slightly to one side or the other.  If you are popping with your right hand, point the kite slightly left (imagine 11 o'clock on a clock face).  This already places the right wing tip above the kite lines.  If popping with the left hand, imagine pointing the kite to 1 o'clock.

Hope this helps
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Kevin Sanders

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Ca Ike
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« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2010, 01:45 AM »

Boy do I remember those day's like it was yesterday.....wait it was yesterday Grin   First off I can tell you a tip wrap results from NOT ENOUGH slack.  Basically you don't slack the popping hand fast enough to drop the line before the tip snags.  Now as for recovering from a tip wrap it is possible if you pop both hands like you pumping the kite in low wind sometimes you can unwrap it but its not always successful.
Well I should try an explain this better.  If your high enough when you get a tip snag if you pop the lines as the kite is falling you can stop the spin for a second and sometimes get the line to release but you have to work both lines as they will both wrap while the kite is spinning.  With some kites you pop the tip that snagged to get it pointing toward you then pop the opposite right after (similar to comete inputs).  IF the line does release you will feel a light snap and the spin will slow dramatically then you can recover and fly off.  Done intentionally I have heard this called the "insane" and its actually kind of cool when you can do it.
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bdhoun
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« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2010, 04:56 AM »

Hey BD,

The words to have playing in the back of your mind should 'probably' be "More slack with the off hand"...

Being I haven't see you flying it's a bit of a guess, but it's a pretty standard error to have as a noob, as to landing it after a tip wrap... Walk/jog/run(wind dependent) forward till it's on the ground.

Good luck out there

WD

Thanks for the tips.  It is probably true about "Not enough slack" .  It is a hard skill to get the muscle memory for.  I think my problem is that I pop, but then just forget about giving  slack.  Need to remember this.  Plus it was pretty difficult doing much of anything yesterday when the winds were at 20kph but gusting to 40 or 50.  The kite (my hypnotist) just didn't like it.  But when this is your only chance to fly, I'll take it.
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mikenchico
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« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2010, 07:43 AM »

Kevin (Koas) gave good advise, pop the higher wing to initiate the Axel, I've seen instructions on how to Axel that said to initiate from the lower wing and that may give a flatter Axel with some kites but I've found that although doable if you hit the lower wing the chances of a tip wrap are greatly increased.

Once wrapped if Ca IKE's method doesn't work, and I've not had much luck myself, then get the hand holding the wrapped line forward as far forward as possible (I think, I have to try both every time to see which slows the spin), maybe even pull back on the opposite to slow the spin as much as possible. Be ready to step/lunge forward as you approach the ground to stall the kite and slow the descent, that high speed spin into the ground can cost you a lower leading edge or spreader.

freecheese has the unwrap on the ground down, it's probably not going to happen if there are multiple wraps or the wraps are high on the wing but it's worth a try. Don't tug too hard if the line is wrapped above the spreader connector if you're not using leaders, I've cut a few APA's with Laser Pro Gold, that then guarantee's future snags that won't let go.

Check your wingtip tensioners, are there knots that might snag, can you tuck the knot into the slot on the nock? If not Steve usually carries what I think he calls "Dorsal Caps" after the member who found the supplier, they are longer end caps you can use to cover the nock and tension lines to reduce snagging.

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sbrown
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« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2010, 08:41 AM »

1. wraps mean you need more slack- try taking a step or two forward as you give the pop

2. adding short leader lines made of bridle line helps, especially if you can use the bright coloured lines. Leader lines are thicker and not as "tangley" as flying lines, so they are less prone to get fatal wraps

3. read Brian Champie's I Hate to Walk pages for tips at undoing knots from 100' away. He has good tips on ground recoveries.
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« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2010, 08:58 AM »

Oftentimes, if you can initiate an insane with the unwrapped wing, then the wrap comes out after a rotation of 2 and you can fly off.  If it doesn't then you can just safely insane all the way to the ground and then gently tug on the wrap in order to free it.
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6 kite tom
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« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2010, 10:56 AM »

Hi bdhoun,                You are not giving enough slack with the other hand after initiating the axel. 
Where in southern Ontario are you located  .......  i am in Richmond Hill and fly at the Bayview Reservoir and also the McCowan Reservoir with other flyers. We will be getting some good winds from Sunday and if you are interested to fly with me ,let me know. I can show you what you are doing wrong and a lot can be learned hands on.
Smooth and gentle winds my friend.                 Tempest.     
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Gamelord
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« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2010, 11:42 AM »

One thing I have learned about the Axle is that it is only 50% pop with one hand but also 50% slack with the other.  The pop is not the most important thing.

Instead of thinking you are going to "pop" the wing over the front of the lines, think that you are going to "drop" or "push back" the other wing away from the lines.  If you shove a ton of slack with the other wing tip, the axle is much easier and flatter to do and requires very little pop at all.  A simple tiny tug on the outside wing while dropping out the inside wing will get the kite to rotate around and you will almost totally eliminate any line snags at all.

Practice your axle by pushing out one hand while "popping" the other and I think you will have much more success.  Remember to throw plenty of slack immediately after the "pop".

Hope this helps.
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freecheese
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« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2010, 03:46 PM »

If it doesn't then you can just safely insane all the way to the ground

Hey, when did 'insane' become a verb?  Wink
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bdhoun
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« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2010, 03:58 PM »

Hi bdhoun,                You are not giving enough slack with the other hand after initiating the axel. 
Where in southern Ontario are you located  .......  i am in Richmond Hill and fly at the Bayview Reservoir and also the McCowan Reservoir with other flyers. We will be getting some good winds from Sunday and if you are interested to fly with me ,let me know. I can show you what you are doing wrong and a lot can be learned hands on.
Smooth and gentle winds my friend.                 Tempest.     

I'm half way between Hamilton and Guelph, in a town called Waterdown.  I would certainly like to meet up with fellow flyers, but I don't know if this Sunday would work.  Do you guys head out on a regular weekly fly, or is it more random.  I guess it depends on the winds.
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tempest
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« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2010, 06:00 PM »

Hi bdhoun,                  We fly whenever we can , and the winds are not too strong. I plan to fly on Sunday , as no rain is expected, winds will be 10 kph,and temperature 8C. If you can come up to RH, we can fly at the Bayview Reservoir (Bayview Ave & Sycamore St. )  BTW fyi there is a flyer in the Burlington area and one in  Waterloo. Cheers.
Tempest.
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