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Author Topic: Fearless sul and Tattoo , are they different from each other ?  (Read 4126 times)
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tempest
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« on: November 04, 2010, 04:15 AM »

or are they the same ?
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zippy8
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« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2010, 09:19 AM »

<The owners of this illustrious kite must be busy>

According to this post, the Tattoo is a variant of the SUL... and even more S SUL.

Mike.
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in.divi.dual
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« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2010, 09:24 AM »

<The owners of this illustrious kite must be busy>

According to this post, the Tattoo is a variant of the SUL... and even more S SUL.

I thought, that the Tattoo had just the needle holed outline of the applique' present on the SUL.

However, most of the recent Tattoo's I've seen pictures of seem to be lacking this feature.
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Dolphinboy
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« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2010, 10:03 AM »

Since I commented on the thread that Mike posted a link to, I have now flown the Fearless SUL probably 5-6 times. I own a Fearless Tattoo.  I have flown them side by side and the Tattoo is lighter, feels lighter on the lines, seems to fly in a bit less wind and does most tricks slower. I think the regular SUL tricks easier and flies and tricks closer to the Std. & Light than the Tattoo. 

Wind ranges are so hard to give accurately because of all the variables. I usually use the best case winds when I do try & give ranges but I usually fly in inland shifty winds. So I'll just say I guess maybe a 1/2 mph gain with a Fearless Tattoo over a SUL. In good wind the Tattoo will show some drive when the wind gets over about 2ish but can be used lower. Again, the quality of the wind makes as much of a difference as the speed. In shifting or meandering type winds you'll need more.
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tpatter
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« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2010, 11:10 AM »

I've only ever flown the Tattoo.  I have noticed that (and most flyers tend not to do this) if you adjust the nose angle on the kite that it will dramatically affect how it flys in lower winds.  The setting that it comes with is ideal for tricking (middle knot on mine if I recall correctly), but it you move it down one (more nose forward the way Lam rigs it), you can get more drive in lower wind - tricking is still fantastic as well.  If you like more pull and have wind, try the top knot.  It takes 2 seconds and you can just go right back to your other knot if you like.

I never really adjust the Fearless, but I do move up/down one knot occasionally with the Transformer TL depending on the wind.  Like I said, it flys great with the standard setup, I only adjust it for ultra low of high winds.

Weight is the other thing - adding a bit more weight to the tail (or removing it if you like) really affects the rollup speed, but little else on the kite that I noticed (other than ultra-low wind performance I imagine).  It's just as turtle-based with less weight, but I like the easier yoyos.  I don't add too much, perhaps 8-10g more mostly to the standards and vents - his lights and SULs I generally like as they come.  I've also talked to flyers who like less weight, so it's all in what you like.  The point is that the kite reacts well to AoA and weight modifications.

So, my guess would be that Lam by default adjusts the AoA and weighting differently on the standard default SUL than he does on the Tattoo.   
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« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2010, 11:21 AM »


And ... what about the needle holes ... the "tattoo" ? Whatever happened to that idea ?

Does a Tattoo version cost the same as the SUL ?

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zippy8
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« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2010, 11:22 AM »

but it you move it down one (more nose forward the way Lam rigs it), you can get more drive in lower wind.....  If you like more pull and have wind, try the top knot.

It took me a moment to fathom this but a picture always helps.

Am I alone in thinking this is a bit upside down ? If~when the main bridle legs need replacing you'll need to retie all of those adjustment points again as well (maybe this is why making one takes so long ?) but if, as others do, you put the adjustment knots on the short length that attaches to the frame then you don't.

Mike.
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« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2010, 11:28 AM »


Am I alone in thinking this is a bit upside down ? If~when the main bridle legs need replacing you'll need to retie all of those adjustment points again as well (maybe this is why making one takes so long ?) but if, as others do, you put the adjustment knots on the short length that attaches to the frame then you don't.

Mike.


Yeah, it's backwards from others designs.  In reality, most folks don't really ever adjust it at all and I've only moved it forward one and back to middle.  Lam expects you to just hook up the lines and fly - no real reason to mess with it at all unless you are trying to get ever last bit of performance in trying conditions.

The bridle you showed would scare the tar out of me - you could spend days just trying out various settings.  Smiley

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zippy8
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« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2010, 11:37 AM »

The bridle you showed would scare the tar out of me - you could spend days just trying out various settings.  Smiley
It's at the US and the LS too Wink with a few more at the centre-T. Same thing though; try a few out, settle on one, leave it be for the most part.

So... the Tattoo's tattooing - optional, cost ?

Mike.
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« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2010, 11:45 AM »

The Tattoo does have the Fearless design but just tattooed on (pin holes). Mine is gray and doesn't show up as much as the black unless it's back lit. The SUL and Tattoo are priced the same. Lam does some other things differently on them too. The performance difference is quite noticeable when flown side by side.
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« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2010, 11:53 AM »

My understanding of the Tattoo is that Lam was short of thread on the tTatoo.  It raised his profit level. Joke.

I don't think there is any difference between Tatoo or not Tatoo.  Frame, sail, bridle and all are the same.  Weight difference is too small to make a difference.

I added some weight to the tail of my SUL and it tricking improved a small amount.  Little easier to roll.  It flew about the same maybe a little better?Huh??  It seems to fly straighter and have sharper corners but I think that is because of the slight increase in inertia my inputs are crisper.

The Fearless SUL is my most used kite and it is a fantastic kite.
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in.divi.dual
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« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2010, 11:59 AM »


Regarding the tattoo ... my mistake ... here is another shot of the one for sale



Its just very hard to see this when not backlit I guess:







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Dolphinboy
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« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2010, 12:20 PM »

I keep saying it, The SUL Tattoo and the SUL are noticeably different in how they fly and trick. I have it on good authority (myself) Grin
It could be that Lam has made mine different, I wanted it to work in the lightest wind possible but that's just a thought and not a known fact..
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James -
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obijuankenobe
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« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2010, 09:45 AM »

Lam weighted the spine in his SD's if I recall correctly (not just the tail weight). If you broke and replaced the spine without noticing the weight near the center T, you didn't have a SD anymore once you replaced the spar.  And it was always hard to find out exactly where and how much weight he used in the spine.  In fact, I don't know if I ever figured that out, so my standard was never as good as when I first got it.  Only when I got other SD's did I notice that the spine was weighted near the center T and deduce that the standard must have been as well.  When I asked about it, he said I should try whatever works.   

If he does the same with the SSUL and the SUL's of the Fearless line, this is most likely where the largest difference is found.  Just a guess.

obi
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« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2010, 01:18 PM »

And he will let you keep guessing. ss
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