GWTW Forum
October 01, 2014, 05:27 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Forum Info Login Register Chat  
Welcome to the GWTW Forum.
Guests (non-registered users) can view the forum but are unable to post.  If you don't have anything to say then why would you bother to register?
One of the most popular sections of the GWTW Forum has long been the Swap Meet.  A great place to sell old, seldom flown kites or to get great deals on used (gently flown) kites.  Only registered users can see the Swap Meet section, let alone wheel and deal.  1000's (literally) of kites have changed hands thanks to the Swap Meet.
There are several more benefits to being a registered user, but you'll have to join our little community to find out all the "secrets".
Questions or concerns? Contact Steve ... just drop an email to: forum.gwtwkites@gmail.com

Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Why are kite lines always so far off?  (Read 2603 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Scott Blake
Trade Count: (0)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 53

Location:

« on: November 23, 2010, 01:30 PM »

Just curious.

I have 5 kites and 7 or so sets of lines so far.  Only one has  been a 'match' to start with; most are 1-3 inches out.  Worse yet, after an outing, we are looking at differences of over a foot (with my 50 foot lines that came with a full size standard Acrobatx).  Can these things not get cut/stretched at the factory to make them closer?  I mean, how hard can this be; we are not engineering the space shuttle here  Cheesy

Have I been getting a lot of bum batches or is it the norm for things to be out by 4-16 inches on 50 foot lines?  I would be terrified to see how far out longer lines could get!
Logged
inewham
Board Moderator
Trade Count: (+1)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 379


Location: Nottingham, UK

WWW
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2010, 01:47 PM »

You can get (or at least you used to be able to get) pre stretched lines but since its no big deal I and many others just buy raw line, hook it over a nail and pull really hard to get the stretch out first. Once I've given them a good stretch and tied them off they rarely move much more.

I also haven't bother with sleeving with sleeving for years. The knots stay put whereas I suspect they moved a bit in the sleeving. Never broke one yet but to sleeve or not to sleeve, thats a whole new thread of opinions  Wink
Logged

Gamelord
Trade Count: (+2)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 592


Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

WWW
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2010, 05:11 PM »

I wouldn't blame Flying Wings on that as the Acrobatx doesn't come shipped with 50' lines.  These would have had to been made either by yourself or the shop/person that you purchased the kite from.  That being what it is, the lines could be anything or any brand.  Different lines have different characteristics.  If you get a cheap set of lines then they will almost always stretch out of shape and will need constant tending and adjusting.  If you get a good high quality set of lines such as Shanti or Laser Pro Gold, you might have to adjust them once after the initial creep has been taken out and then they should be good for the lifetime of the lines.  I rarely ever have to make line adjustments other than the first or second initial ones.  Mainly because I only fly off of high quality lines and won't bother with the cheap junk.

High quality linesets are usually always right on the money and will have very minimal stretch or line creep.  It is rare but even then you may get one special set that is out of whack.  If so then adjust it once and you are good to go.  IMO - Shanti pre-made linesets have a very high accuracy and quality control and are usually perfect right out of the bag.  LPG is no longer making linesets from the factory so if you do get a LPG set, you must rely on the person / shop that is making them for you.  Still, most are very accurate if done right.

Most of the pilots I fly with rarely have a lineset that ends up more than maybe an inch or two out of adjustment - and that is usually after months or even years of flying.

Just my opinion....YMMV. Smiley
Logged

tpatter
Trade Count: (+22)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1981

Location: Seattle, WA

WWW
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2010, 05:51 PM »

Someone should really put together a comparison sheet for the various lines available - they differ in slickness, stiffness, stretch, and general "feel" quite a bit. 
Logged

6 kite tom
RobB
Trade Count: (+9)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1403


Location: Long Island

WWW
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2010, 06:53 PM »

The only factory supplied lines that are any good are the ones from Prism. I have linesets from Flying Wings, HQ, New Tech, and Premiere, and they are all unacceptably off. They can be adjusted, but they stretch and randomly go out of whack. The best investment I've made in accesories would be my LPG linesets. I have a few BerryBlue, and they're OK, but bind up a little sooner than LPG. Prism's got thier standard lines, and the upscale Modulus lines. I'm sure the Shantis are good, at least that's what I hear, and there are the Climax Protec lines that are well reguarded. Maybe tough to find them in the US, though (?).
So, I would say to get a couple of good quality linesets, and you'll never have to waste your time with your factory linesets again...
~Rob.
Logged

Scott Blake
Trade Count: (0)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 53

Location:

« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2010, 11:40 PM »

Looks like I will add some extra line to my next order hehe.
Logged
Gamelord
Trade Count: (+2)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 592


Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

WWW
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2010, 12:43 PM »

Prism and Revolution use authentic LPG linesets in their factory packages.  So if you purchase a Prism, you are getting a high quality LPG line.  With Revolution you need to be a little more careful as Revolution sells their packages to shops with our without lines.  If the certain shop orders their packages without lines then the shop will supply the lines themselves and they could be whatever the shop decides to package with the kite.  It could be LPG or it could be some aftermarket cheap Dyneema (there are some good quality Dyneema out there if you can find it) or even worse like simple twisted pair blend line.

If ordering a Revolution, check with the shop to see if they are including a Revolution Factory line or supplying their own line.    It may be a big difference.

Just a post FYI on the different lines included with kites.  Hope it helps you when deciding on your next purchase.
Logged

Old Greebo
Guest
Trade Count: (0)
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2010, 01:03 PM »

My HQ Yukon flies all right when I get decent wind.  The 20m (65ft) lines that came with it seem (to my inexperienced hands) to be well matched.  If they were a foot out I might have noticed, but I admit my hands are probably not sensitive enough to notice a discrepancy of 3 inches, let alone one inch.

My lovely new SF 2.5 is due (courtesy USPS, UK Customs and Parcelforce) to be delivered tomorrow.  Thank you AWOC (Las Vegas).  It'll come without lines, so I've got all the bits in to make my own.    60daN Climax, plus a sleeving kit, a winder and hand-straps.
I've already sleeved the loops at each end of a 60-metre length of the Climax, and tomorrow I'll venture outdoors, hook the loops over a nail, walk back 30 metres (with the line looped over a screwdriver) and give the line a few sharp tugs followed by a nice, steady pull.
Then I'll cut the line in half.
Then I'll bring it all back indoors, and make the other two (sleeved) loops.

(I got that all from the GWTW forum.  Thank you, whoever it was who posted the instructions!)
Have I got it right?  Will I be able to fly squares with my SF, instead of the irregular circles I get with my Yukon?
Tricks can come later ...

(PS:  I've just noticed that the Climax line I bought is labelled "Climax Basic".  Does that mean it's rubbish?)
« Last Edit: November 24, 2010, 03:20 PM by Old Greebo » Logged
RobB
Trade Count: (+9)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1403


Location: Long Island

WWW
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2010, 03:46 PM »

Perfectly matched linesets make a huge difference in your flying experience. It is totally worth the time to get the lines within a half inch of each other. I build and repair all my linesets outside, where you can stretch them to full length and adjust them until they're perfect. Once they're more than an inch off, it will totally throw your flying out of whack. I check mine every time I set up, just stake one end and compare the ends before you hook up the kite.
Logged

sbrown
Trade Count: (+4)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 123

Location: Vancouver Island/Steveston BC, Canada

WWW
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2010, 04:06 PM »

The best pre-made sets that I've ever bought were Berry Blue lines.

I bought two sets of 100# x 100'  BB Lines and they were bang on, checked with a Moran Equalizer.

I was pleasantly surprised that the two BB dual line sets were so well matched that I could use them for a quad line set, without adjustment.

The worst pre-made set I bought were quad 90# x 75' Laser Pro Competition. I unwrapped them, hooked them up to my Rev and the kite just wanted to fly backwards counter-clockwise.  Huh

After I staked them out and checked with my Equalizer I found there was about 5" difference between each line, totalling 20" between the longest and shortest.  Roll Eyes

That was the last time I bought pre-made Laser Pro. I just buy bulk rolls and make my own now.

 
Logged

Sent from my 6 year old laptop using Hunt'n'Peck.
Old Greebo
Guest
Trade Count: (0)
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2010, 04:33 PM »

Thanks for the pic of a Moran Equaliser, sbrown.   Excellent idea!   I wonder if it's patented!
It doesn't seem to be available to buy nowadays, but it looks like a fairly simple piece of equipment.  I think I could knock one up in my workshop, using an old plastic school ruler and a nut & bolt...
Logged
inewham
Board Moderator
Trade Count: (+1)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 379


Location: Nottingham, UK

WWW
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2010, 12:02 AM »

As an alternative to a Moran some winders have 2 hooks for the lines so you can compare them by putting your finger through the hole and pulling.

Personally I pull both lines tight, get them equal by comparing the sag over the length of the line, mark with a pen and tie off. Then just confirm they're equal after tying with a 6" offcut of carbon use in the same manner as the winder above.
Logged

Hadge
Trade Count: (0)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 615


Location: Lincolnshire, UK

« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2010, 02:26 AM »

Thanks for the pic of a Moran Equaliser, sbrown.   Excellent idea!   I wonder if it's patented!
It doesn't seem to be available to buy nowadays, but it looks like a fairly simple piece of equipment.  I think I could knock one up in my workshop, using an old plastic school ruler and a nut & bolt...


If you have a Climax winder they have a (basic) equaliser built in.



Stake out and unwind your lines. Put a sleeved loop around each of the notches on the back of the empty winder and your finger through the centre hole and pull.  If the lines are equal the back of the winder will be level.
Logged

Age and cunning will always overcome youth and skill!

In the bag - HQ Shadow, Prism 4D, Flying Wings Soul Mid Vent, HQ Jive (1), Spiderkites Zodarion, 'Paw' modded HQ Maestro ll, HQ Delta Hawk.
Scott Blake
Trade Count: (0)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 53

Location:

« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2010, 12:55 PM »

I don't purport to be any good as a flyer but I definitely can tell the difference of a few inches.  Primarily when you have the kite above you; if you have your hands neutral and the kite is always going left or right then you know things are not even.  That I definitely notice as it really prevents me from grabbing something with one (camera in pocket for instance) hand while holding the lines 'even' with the other as by the time I am going for the pocket the kite is making its turn and descent to the ground.

I am really going to have to get good at making these sets match.
Logged
kiteking
Trade Count: (+11)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 900


Location: Brookings, OR)

WWW
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2010, 03:17 PM »

Hey.. why all the bitching.. When I started flying you were lucky if the lines were within 3 feet of each other, and you had to create loops in the ends... knots would cut through..  I always take a new set (purchased, self made, pre-stretched, no stretch) attach it to a hard pulling kite and fly for 30 min, yanking left and right, looping, doing ground passes. Later at home I attach to a anchor point and equalize then...problem solved.

Since I don't expect them to be equal, or to stretch the same on each side then I don't worry about it.

That's my thought, If you need help making your own lines, or equalizing them I will gladly assist

Logged

* *
"Wind to your back, Kite in the sky."

MikeM
Brookings, OR  - KP 4-11

* *
#518  -    #110883 -

Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  


items purchased through the links below help support the forum

Cal Custom

Our forum is made possible by the good folks whose ads appear below and by the members of our community (PayPal donation button at bottom)
In case you missed it each ad is linked to the sponsors web site.  So please, take a moment and visit our sponsors sites as this forum wouldn't be possible with out them.
Interested in running an ad for your business or kiting event?  Contact Steve at advertise.gwtwkites@gmail.com for a quote.

kmacFab
kmacFab

Kite Classifieds Ad
Kite Classifieds

A Wind Of Change
A Wind Of Change

Kitebookie
Kitebookie.com

Untitled Document

Untitled Document
Untitled Document

Untitled Document
Untitled Document


Untitled Document
DOLLAR SHAVE CLUB

Support the GWTW Forum

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.8 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC
SimplePortal 2.2.1 © 2008-2009
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!