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Author Topic: An idea for 2011  (Read 2722 times)
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Hadge
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« on: January 05, 2011, 10:57 AM »

Scanning through the 'kite building and repair' section the other day it struck me that quite a few of the requests are for information on bridle measurements or frame specs.

How about this for an idea - How about starting a 'sticky thread' where you can post up the standard bridle measurements or frame specs for kites you have or have just bought for the benefit of other forum readers? Maybe even tried and tested modifications too? Something like this-

Flying Wings Soul Standard

Upper Outhaul  54cm  Lower Outhaul 57cm Inhaul 63cm Turbo 9.5cm

ULE /LLE Dynamics D15 x 74cm Spine D15 x 89.5cm Upper Spreader 6mm carbon x 51.5cm Lower Spreader DT18 x 78.5cm standoff 25.5cm x 3mm.

Anyone can then come along and find the standard Soul set up.

What do you think?

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inewham
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« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2011, 11:03 AM »

Sounds good to me - shall I sticky this or do you want a new thread ?
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Steve
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« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2011, 11:12 AM »

Good idea
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chilese
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« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2011, 11:33 AM »

What you are speaking of would be a subset for the equivalent of a "baseball card" for each kite.

The complete "Kite Cardô" would have:

A photo of the kite
Dimensions of the kite
Dimensions of the bridle
Dimensions of the spars
Total weight
Years made
Quantity made
Kite manufacturer
Kite Features
Facts Of Note

This goes back into the concept of a complete data bank which gets raised from time to time. Mike (formerly from Tucson) is creating his own and posts facts from time to time as required.

Considering all the different tweaks manufacturers make to the bridles over the life of a kite model, this could be a daunting task.

Good luck.  Smiley
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Dave Gibson
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« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2011, 11:33 AM »

good idea !!
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mikenchico
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« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2011, 12:23 PM »

Sounds great, just need a consensus on how to measure, to the spar front, back, center or measured to the loop ends with the bridle off the kite? I've seen all four being used by different people. My preference when checking your measurements on your kite is to the bridle side (front) of the spar, butt the tape against the spar and measure, center is a bit of a guessing game as is the back side. If I was building from scratch I prefer overall length after the loops are tied, but I wouldn't want to ask anybody to remove their bridle.

A new thread with a sticky read-me instruction post on the preferred way to measure just to keep everybody on the same frequency. Maybe one of you experienced builders can give a close rule of thumb on the extra length needed to form a 3" (or whatever is standard) loop and knot, that would help get people real close when tying a new one from scratch using the spar to bridle point measurement method. Or I could do a little marking, tying and experimenting if somebody wants to come up with a standard loop size. I currently prefer Ken McNeill's Cow Hitch method over loops since taking his class, but most mass produced kites still have loops. Also link to, or inclusion of the knots most often used. And of course Links to Ian's (inewham) & Andy Wardley's pages on bridles for those wanting to learn more of the science.

Be a great place to post bridle mods too if somebody finds an adjustment they feel provides an improvement.
\
...

Considering all the different tweaks manufacturers make to the bridles over the life of a kite model, this could be a daunting task.

Good luck.  Smiley



LOL ... and considering the Tweaks and Experimentation done at the "Off Shore" factories, such as installing the bridle upside down, installing it on the wrong side of the leading edge connectors or center T etc. etc.   Wink   Cheesy

« Last Edit: January 05, 2011, 12:36 PM by mikenchico » Logged

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Hadge
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« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2011, 03:17 PM »

The main idea is to provide a reference source for anyone who needs to repair their kite or check the standard spec of a secondhand kite they have just bought. I would think that edge of frame to centre of knot would be accurate enough, as long as you're close to standard you can fine tune from there.

Sounds good to me - shall I sticky this or do you want a new thread ?

As it's getting late now I'll start a new thread tomorrow - Standard kite specifications or something with a few suggested guidelines if you could then 'sticky' it. Cheers  Wink
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stapp59
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« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2011, 09:34 PM »

Yep good idea!  I keep my own info on the kites in my bag mostly BMK and Aerostar and would be happy to share.  I would add favorite tweaks and settings to John's list.

Measuring bridles from the top/front of the frame tube to the middle of the knot seems a good way to go to eliminate most of the variables. A metal yardstick held against the frame works well.  Pull the bridle taut against the yardstick and measure away.

Bridle line weight, tube diameter, knots, etc will all affect the leg lengths when tying bridles.
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inewham
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« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2011, 12:41 AM »

Sounds great, just need a consensus on how to measure
...
Maybe one of you experienced builders can give a close rule of thumb on the extra length needed to form a 3" (or whatever is standard) loop and knot

I've measured the 'extra' for the knot/loop around the frame before; the variation based on knot type / bridle cord / frame mods is sufficient that for most purposes measuring on the kite with a yardstick from the frame to knot-centre is more useful than trying to work out the dimensions of a bridle off the frame.

Raw bridle dimensions are great for new builds but they're usually given on the plan, most people will be repairing / returning to stock an existing kite.

I'd stick with distance between knot-centres and let the user work out what they need to add for their frame loops.
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mikenchico
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« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2011, 07:43 AM »

One of the reasons I like Ken's Cow Hitch method although I haven't had to do it yet. It appears you could mark a new bridle line where it should meet the frame then cut it a few inches long, tie the hitch and adjust the mark to the spar and re-measure for a double check, then mark where the stopper knot or melted mushroom should be. Untie it and put in the stopper knot or mushroom then tie it back on and you should be good to go.

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stapp59
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« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2011, 08:06 AM »

One of the reasons I like Ken's Cow Hitch method although I haven't had to do it yet. It appears you could mark a new bridle line where it should meet the frame then cut it a few inches long, tie the hitch and adjust the mark to the spar and re-measure for a double check, then mark where the stopper knot or melted mushroom should be. Untie it and put in the stopper knot or mushroom then tie it back on and you should be good to go.

Bingo!  Even better, go ahead and tie the cow hitch around the frame leaving a few inches of bridle line hanging out where the stopper knot will go.  Adjust the bridle leg length where you want it, then mark, tie the stopper knot, and melt the end.  No need to remove the bridle leg to finish the job!
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Ang3lFir3
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« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2011, 05:04 PM »

cross posting link.... just in case no one is following the sticky.....

http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=4607.msg42093#msg42093
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