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Author Topic: First build - it's a copy of sorts as I'd like to stack some on my original  (Read 445 times)
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Pikman
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« on: April 24, 2015, 07:26 AM »

Firstly, am I OK to post about copying a design? It is ancient and I've done all I can to obtain an original. Totally thought I had found some sails until today, turns out no, I have only one way forward.

If all is good - what is my best approach?

I have drawn it up in CAD but now I am thinking that it might be way easier just to lay the original out and match each panel as I go? So long as I make each new panel identical then I think I should be OK, thoughts?
I would be sensible and leave myself a good few mm on each side to fold and sew as I progress.

I'll post as I go. Ideally I'd like my first attempt to be a good one (ha).

Thanks Smiley
Jon
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I have a couple of (now pretty old school) kites:
Highflyer's Club Spectre (p8 on the link below)
Flexifoil Scorpion (p5)
http://www.whkf.org.uk/Scrapbook/MK93.pdf
thief
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« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2015, 08:51 AM »

Copying one for your own use is okay, but copying a design to sell, well........

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Kites kayaks & corgis again!!!
Pikman
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« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2015, 10:31 AM »

I am definitely not going to do this to sell, purely for my own enjoyment, I want a stack Smiley
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I have a couple of (now pretty old school) kites:
Highflyer's Club Spectre (p8 on the link below)
Flexifoil Scorpion (p5)
http://www.whkf.org.uk/Scrapbook/MK93.pdf
Pikman
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« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2015, 12:34 PM »

First question. Why is the central portion of the sail split down the middle? Does it have to be or could it just be one piece?
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I have a couple of (now pretty old school) kites:
Highflyer's Club Spectre (p8 on the link below)
Flexifoil Scorpion (p5)
http://www.whkf.org.uk/Scrapbook/MK93.pdf
sugarbaker
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« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2015, 05:52 PM »

the risk of copying an older kite is that your plan will reflect a used sail... one that has stretched in various areas from the original design.

In an attempt to repair a punctured sail at one point, I used a light table to trace an existing panel... cut the new panel, sewed it in place and had what looked like a beautiful repair (all though the new panel stood out drastically as the rest of the sail had faded slightly from use).  After several weeks of lying what was at the time my favorite kite, it began to behave strangely. What I noticed is that the repair piece was breaking in/softening.  This was creating a different sail shape on the repaired side of the kite. The end solution was that I trashed the sail and built a completely new kite to replace it. (The kite is LeQuartz... an open source kite by Christian Derefat).

As you will be creating an entire sail, you would not need to worry about the symmetry of the sail.  The kite should fly just fine.  The risk is that over time, the new sail will stretch to be larger/different shape than the original.  I don't know how this will effect the behavior of a stack. My suggestion would be to build several of the copies, and fly those in a stack, leaving the original as a single kite.

Regardless, using a glass surface with a light under it makes for an easy means of reproducing a sail.  Best of luck to you!
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Pikman
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« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2015, 08:04 PM »

Hadn't thought of that, thanks Smiley
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I have a couple of (now pretty old school) kites:
Highflyer's Club Spectre (p8 on the link below)
Flexifoil Scorpion (p5)
http://www.whkf.org.uk/Scrapbook/MK93.pdf
bojocatkite
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« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2015, 12:08 PM »

Copying one for your own use is okay, but copying a design to sell, well........

I built kites since 1994 and I'm on kite forums in Fr, UK, german, US and every single time somebody says he's going to built a copy of a kite somebody has to say just that as a warning/guilt trip... even for a copy of a 25 years old model.

Anyway, what model do you want to make, or what kind of kite is it and what is the panel design ? Any pictures ?

Usually to copy a kite, you remove all the structure and try to lay down the sail on a thin cardboard the best you can, holding it with tape and/or little weights. Even if the kite is brand new the sail won't lie flat (the stitches shrink the fabric), try not to stretch it too much in one direction or the other. If the stitches for each panel are straight you can try to stretch them.

What you can do is take the outline of the right side and the outline of the left side and the blend of both will be your final shape for the half kite, create the other side by symmetry. Work on the full sail and draw the panels at the end, don't try to copy each panel independently, they will never fit together at the end.

When you sail is finished, try to fit the structure of the old kite on it to see if it fits ok, sign that there is no major mistake and from there, adapt the structure to your sail, don't cut the bars before the sail is finished. Make sure the structure for each kite of the stack is the same.

Remember to take into account the hems and overlap before you cut your fabric.

For the assembly, use UHU stick glue if you don't have specific thin double sided tape to join the panels together before sewing. Even with a walking foot sewing machine (like the IDT system from old Pfaff), you need to glue the panels together before sewing. Remember, the smaller the stitches are, the bigger the needle/thread, the more the fabric will shrink.

Like it was said before, your copy certainly won't fly exactly like the original one you have that is stretch from years of use, so make your stack with your home made copies. Make sure you sew them with the same sewing machine settings to have the same kind of shrink/stretch when you sew the panels together.

I can't think of anything else that can be a pitfall right now.
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Pikman
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« Reply #7 on: Yesterday at 08:40 AM »

Thanks very much, this is great information! Common sense really but I would have missed a ton of these points, much appreciated!

Check out the Club Spectre from the link in my sig, it's old school but I just never tire of flying it Smiley

I'm going to make a start this evening, thanks!
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 08:41 AM by Pikman » Logged

I have a couple of (now pretty old school) kites:
Highflyer's Club Spectre (p8 on the link below)
Flexifoil Scorpion (p5)
http://www.whkf.org.uk/Scrapbook/MK93.pdf
Pikman
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« Reply #8 on: Today at 02:40 AM »

This is definitely escalating, but I've started so I will finish it!

Do I have to hot cut this on a glass surface or can I just use some bits of wood that I have already? We do have a glass shelf in the bathroom and that's temporarily coming of the wall if I need it Smiley
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I have a couple of (now pretty old school) kites:
Highflyer's Club Spectre (p8 on the link below)
Flexifoil Scorpion (p5)
http://www.whkf.org.uk/Scrapbook/MK93.pdf
Fly Market
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« Reply #9 on: Today at 04:47 AM »

Glass is easiest to hot cut on, as it doesn't burn or melt. You can find a glass surface in lots of places: refrigerator shelves, storm doors and windows, etc. I have two glass tabletops, one cast off from a furniture store that wanted $25 for it, the other found in someone's trash sitting out on the curb. You might check with a shop that fixes doors and windows, to see if they have something they're tossing out. Be creative.
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