GWTW Forum
July 30, 2014, 06:48 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Forum Info Login Register Chat  
Welcome to the GWTW Forum.
Guests (non-registered users) can view the forum but are unable to post.  If you don't have anything to say then why would you bother to register?
One of the most popular sections of the GWTW Forum has long been the Swap Meet.  A great place to sell old, seldom flown kites or to get great deals on used (gently flown) kites.  Only registered users can see the Swap Meet section, let alone wheel and deal.  1000's (literally) of kites have changed hands thanks to the Swap Meet.
There are several more benefits to being a registered user, but you'll have to join our little community to find out all the "secrets".
Questions or concerns? Contact Steve ... just drop an email to: forum.gwtwkites@gmail.com

Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Spring Time Chores: Equalizing Line Sets  (Read 1942 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Kitemac
Trade Count: (+17)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 142

Location: Somerset County NJ

« on: April 02, 2011, 02:18 PM »

Yes spring is here and so is my least favorite kite chore; equalizing line sets.  Angry

My big problem with this chore is untying overhand knots in the sleeves after a seasons worth of flying.  I usually use a 1/2" as the point where I equalize.  The knots are loosened with a sewing needle.  This afternoon my thumb was lucky to get away with two needle sticks.  Yes this happens each spring so I clean the needle with alcohol before I start knowing the final outcome.

Next year I was leaning toward just cutting off both sleeves and starting with new sleeving material.  Anyone have a secret they can share to untie the knots or does everyone just use new sleeves?

Thanks,

Tom

Logged
Jeepster
Trade Count: (0)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 125

Location: Washington, Il

« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2011, 03:48 PM »

Tom,

Unfortunately, with quads, equilization is a must.

When you tie the knots, are you careful to make sure the lines/sleeves lay parallel as they go through the knot?  If you allow them to twist as they go through the knot they're a devil to untie.  Laid parallel in the beginning makes them easier (note I said easier, not easy) to untie.

Cheers,
Tom
Logged
stapp59
Guest
Trade Count: (0)
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2011, 04:55 PM »

A small pair of needle nose pliers (or two) works much better than fingers for holding knots to be untied. I like the smaller size with spring loaded handles to keep the jaws open unless in use.  Patience is required of course.

Make sure you properly load and stretch both lines before equalizing.
Logged
tpatter
Trade Count: (+21)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1937

Location: Seattle, WA

WWW
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2011, 05:29 PM »

I just recut mine and then larkshead onto a loop of bridle line (no sleeving).  I've been doing this on my dual lines for years with no issues.

I can tension, mark, cut, and re-loop a line set in a few minutes.  To me, the sleeving knots are a hassle due to the reasons you mention.  I also don't like having to move the knot around when adjusting in order to get them equal as it takes me a few attempts to get it right. With the mark, cut, and loop method they are exactly the same length the first time with less hassle (at least for me).

Some folks don't use any sort of sleeving or bridle loop. They just use the bare line with little knot on the loop in order to make it easy to loosen the larks heads.
Logged

6 kite tom
stapp59
Guest
Trade Count: (0)
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2011, 05:48 PM »

At the risk of igniting a flame war that could burn for weeks...

@tpatter, I've thought of using your method and not sleeving for all the reasons you mention.  Truth: sleeving is a PITA.

My lines though are all sleeved under the premise that the larger radius knots are stronger and less prone to breaking.  Then the few line breaks I've had seem to be at the knots anyway.

Sleeving does not protect lines from the lawnmower.   Sad  Roll Eyes
Logged
tpatter
Trade Count: (+21)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1937

Location: Seattle, WA

WWW
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2011, 06:29 PM »

Good points.   Don't get me wrong, I like sleeving - just not enough to hassle with it myself.

By the way, when my lines break, it is never at the knots.  They break near where they wrap while flying, which seems to make sense.

I have had sleeved lines break several times right where the top sleeving knot meets the unsleeved line.  Not due to pressure, but just wear.   The non-sleeved line will flex more than the unsleeved and eventually snap right there. 
Logged

6 kite tom
Ca Ike
Trade Count: (+24)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1705


Location: Stockton, CA

« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2011, 11:00 PM »

I use a dental pick or seal pick set like these http://www.harborfreight.com/7-piece-pick-and-hook-set-93958.html for untieing knots.  Works well and saves the fingers from needle pricks
Logged
tonycarl60
Trade Count: (+7)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 207


Location: Newman, Ca

« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2011, 11:41 PM »

If the lines aren't too far off, sometimes just putting an extra knot or 2 in the longer line sleeve will fix it Smiley
Logged
Allen Carter
Board Moderator
Trade Count: (+15)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1768

Location: Half Moon Bay, CA

« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2011, 11:54 PM »

If the lines aren't too far off, sometimes just putting an extra knot or 2 in the longer line sleeve will fix it Smiley

Yup, if I do make a sleeved line set, I make the loops long enough to put in extra knots as needed.

But, I generally avoid sleeving. For duallies, a properly made set of good quality unsleeved lines generally does not need equalizing. My most heavily used sets generally last about two years. Lesser used weights a lot more. I've been making them the same way for at least a decade. I can't remember the last time a set creeped. Once they are stretched and the knots locked down, where can they go? Stretching is key.
Logged

Allen, AKA kitehead
Ca Ike
Trade Count: (+24)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1705


Location: Stockton, CA

« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2011, 01:15 AM »

Yep I agree Allen.  I Got in the habit of stretching the pre-made sets that came with my kites before the first flight just to make sure they are evened up and any I make up I pre-stretch.
Logged
stapp59
Guest
Trade Count: (0)
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2011, 03:35 AM »

+1 on stretching.  Sleeved or unsleeved, properly stretched good quality lines seldom need equalized once setup initially.  Lower quality lines seem to stretch a bit more over time.
Logged
Kitemac
Trade Count: (+17)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 142

Location: Somerset County NJ

« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2011, 01:37 PM »

Tried a few of the suggestions this afternoon.  The dental pick tool was the same as my sewing needle approach.  Pull too hard and it slips; but it does point away from my thumb which is good.  Small pliers will work but at least in my hands mangles the sleeve since I can only grab onto the top part of the sleeve.  Norms flight straps will work and I do have a pair he included with a kite that was purchased from him.  Smiley

The answer I did not expect was no sleeve at all.  That seems to be the easiest method mentioned.  Why don't more use this approach?  If it weakens the line set what happens to the kite when a line breaks in flight? 

Tom
Logged
Allen Carter
Board Moderator
Trade Count: (+15)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1768

Location: Half Moon Bay, CA

« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2011, 02:00 PM »

I've never in 12 years of flying had a line break at the knot. Pretty much everywhere else, and for a variety of reasons. The biggest reason for line failure is damage. A spot somewhere on a line gets snagged or abraded and becomes the weak spot.

I think the theory behind sleeving adding strength to the knot is sound, but I don't think the added strength is a benefit, at least the way I fly. I do fly plenty of light pulling kites, but I also have hundreds and hundreds of hours on Reactor team kites and Prism Prophecies is all kinda wind.

A much bigger benefit to sleeving is that it makes attaching and removing lines from the kite easier, but there are plenty of work arounds for that too. I think the most logical is to make loops from bridle line and permanently larkshead the unsleeved lines to 'em. Essentially replacing the PITA sleeved loop with an easy to tie bridle line loop. I've never done this, but it seems like a good idea.

To avoid picking at and damaging the unsleeved line when removing it from the kite, I use a quick release pigtail. I first saw this on Betancourt kites and have since seen it used by other Bay Area flyers, but I don't know how common it is elsewhere. You just tie a second knot to the pigtail, fold it over at the knot and larkshead the unsleeved line around it. Pulling on the loose end loosens the larkshead to release.

« Last Edit: April 03, 2011, 02:02 PM by Allen Carter » Logged

Allen, AKA kitehead
Kitemac
Trade Count: (+17)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 142

Location: Somerset County NJ

« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2011, 02:31 PM »

Never seen that variation.  The manual for my Beetle did recommend tying an additional small loop at the end of the line set loop that you can pull when removing from the tow lines.  That may work also. 
Logged
Allen Carter
Board Moderator
Trade Count: (+15)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1768

Location: Half Moon Bay, CA

« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2011, 02:36 PM »

Yeah, tying a loop at the end of the loop works, but you should use a figure 8 knot. A single overhand knot will slip more often than not, leaving you with nothing to pull on but a little knot, or coming undone all together. I have some kites with bridles made of really heavy line that doesn't work well for the quick release. The unsleeved lines I use with those kites have the little loop.
Logged

Allen, AKA kitehead
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  


items purchased through the links below help support the forum

Our forum is made possible by the good folks whose ads appear below and by the members of our community (PayPal donation button at bottom)
In case you missed it each ad is linked to the sponsors web site.  So please, take a moment and visit our sponsors sites as this forum wouldn't be possible with out them.
Interested in running an ad for your business or kiting event?  Contact Steve at advertise.gwtwkites@gmail.com for a quote.

Kite Classifieds Ad
Kite Classifieds

A Wind Of Change
A Wind Of Change

Kitebookie
Kitebookie.com

Untitled Document

Untitled Document
Untitled Document

Untitled Document
Untitled Document


Untitled Document
DOLLAR SHAVE CLUB

Support the GWTW Forum

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.8 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC
SimplePortal 2.2.1 © 2008-2009
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!