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Author Topic: le quartz  (Read 4203 times)
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johnsown48
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« on: May 17, 2011, 08:25 AM »

Trying to get together the materials for le quartz , which will be my first build attempt. I have some question on the 6mm hollow carbon called out in the materials used for leading edges, spine and upper spreader. Would those be pulltruded or something else?
   Also looking at another build, what is a substitute for Icone white?
Thanks
John
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Will Sturdy
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« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2011, 09:31 AM »

Poltruded will work. If it called for structil 6mm hollow carbon, Skyshark P200 might be a better choice. Someone who's built a quartz an probably say which is better in this specific application - if I was building it I'd go with the P200s.
Skyshark nitro standards will be a pretty good substitute for icone white.
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johnsown48
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« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2011, 09:43 AM »

thanks
It just said 6mm hollow, I assume the p200 would be lighter?
John
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sugarbaker
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« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2011, 10:55 AM »

I've built Le Quartz.  it's a great first kite.  if you haven't seen it, you should check out Tom's kite building page/site.  http://www.tweelijners.com/tom/tomskitesite-en/Home.html

his site has a simplified version of the kite in terms of the sail pattern.  (The plans on C. Derefat's site are available in 2 additional sail patterns/layouts). 

When I built mine, I use 6mm pultruded carbon because it is cheaper than skyshark and like you guessed, slightly heavier.  I've also seen a couple of these at various kite festivals and they've all used the pultruded carbon.  For lower spreader, I use skyshark 5pts.  Nitro standards are a great spars, but it will require a shim to place a 6mm ferrule (or you'll need to use a larger ferrule).  5pt can be ferruled without an extra shim. Le Quartz is not that big of a kite, so 5pt has always worked fine for me.

As a first build, I definitely recommend following the website instructions.  You'll be pleased with the results and want to build more!
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johnsown48
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« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2011, 12:35 PM »

thanks for the info and encouragement. 6mm pultruded it is
John
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DWayne
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« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2011, 12:52 PM »

I used Sky Shark P200's for both the leading edge and the spine on the few that I built. They're lighter than 6mm Structil and I've been able to buy them for a lot less than Structil costs.
I think this kite is a lot of fun to fly. Hope you enjoy it too.

Denny
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mikenchico
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« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2011, 04:49 PM »

I used Sky Shark P200's for both the leading edge and the spine on the few that I built. They're lighter than 6mm Structil and I've been able to buy them for a lot less than Structil costs.
I think this kite is a lot of fun to fly. Hope you enjoy it too.

Denny

What did you use for spreaders Denny?
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DWayne
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« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2011, 05:07 PM »

What did you use for spreaders Denny?

5pt's Mike

Denny
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johnsown48
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« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2011, 09:22 PM »

Another question
In the simplified sail layout on Tom's kite site, there is no indication of the "grain' of the fabric, like I see in some plans. Is the orientation of the rip stop squares just an aesthetic thing or do they have more importance and if so how should they be oriented and why. i also didn't see any indication on the original plan.
   On another matter, on the original sail plan by christian derefat, I can't figure a way to save the pdf to disk to take it to Kinko's to print. I'm only given the option of " saving the link". any help on this?
Thank you all again for you help
John
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mikenchico
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« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2011, 10:58 PM »

Fabric grain is oriented along stress lines usually, in most designs I've looked at that often means oriented along the edges and center line. That leaves the panels coming together in the center off grain or as commonly called on the bias, that way they may stretch a bit under under pressure adding a bit of billow which forms an airfoil shape to the wing (very slight if any if using a fabric as stable as Icarex'PC31). Some designers put a lot of thought into placing the grain and the ultimate design of the graphics may be highly influenced by a wish to have the grain going in a desired direction in certain area's. I don't know if Tom had a plan in mind or if he just simplified the graphics.

If I was building that design I might align it like my quick example below. What I've done is simply found the angle from point to point on the two panels that form the trailing edge and aligned the grain along that, then along the leading edge for the upper outside panel and along the center-line for the center panel.



[attachments older than 90 days deleted by admin]
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sugarbaker
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« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2011, 12:53 AM »

I agree with the previously posted image for lining up the bias of the fabric... I might only change it slightly so the entire leading edge panels match one another, simply for the asthetic of the finished product.

as for downloading the .pdf, it may depend on what computer you have, but I know if you have Windows based machine: click on the file/link and it should open the PDF in your browser.  Then you can click the floppy disk icon in the upper left corner (within the browser window) and have the option to save the file as a pdf.  Note that the pdf on Tom's site is a paneled version of the plan that you can print at home (make sure you use the appropriate size paper, either A4 or Legal size, so you can print the pages at 100%).  Then you will need to tape the plan together as described in the process documetation of Tom's site.
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mikenchico
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« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2011, 07:26 AM »

I grabbed that .pdf, Tom gives you a panel layout on page 16 so that defines the direction to run the grain. Both of us guessed wrong on the two panels making up the leading edge, Tom has them laid out so no edge runs on the grain and everything is cut on 'the bias'. I don't know his reasoning behind that or if he has just attempted to make the best use of the fabric with as little waste as possible. I prefer my way but I wouldn't argue with Sugarbaker's alternative, it has it's own advantages.



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« Last Edit: May 25, 2011, 07:44 AM by mikenchico » Logged

"Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see" John W Lennon

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johnsown48
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« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2011, 01:05 PM »

Thank you guys.
I ended up having Kinko's print the full size angular layout of the original le Quartz sail. It has no grain directions , so I'll either go for best use of materials or lining up le,te and spine.
  John
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johnsown48
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« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2011, 10:22 PM »

you have all been so helpful but in my ignorance I have more questions as I go along. In the plan of the original le Quartz here http://users.skynet.be/cerfvolanttrick/jeu%20de%20cadre.htm ,What line represents the actual centerline of the kite. In the bazaar build thread I think I understand, the one wing would be made to the outside ( solid ) line. then one wing would be placed on the other and straight stitched a short distance from the edge, then unfolded and reinforced. If thats the way the quartz example on Tom's site is done also, then I'm okay with that part, except that if one wing is on top of the other, why would I wait for the straight part of the spine to dry before I glue the curved part. Also the part that has me even more confused is the second dotted line at the bottom of the spine on the Quartz that curves toward the tip of the kite?
Thank you again
a confused first timer
John
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johnsown48
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« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2011, 06:01 AM »

anyone? anyone? Bueller?
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