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Author Topic: Spectre XUL the 3rd  (Read 3233 times)
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ae
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« on: May 30, 2011, 11:02 AM »

Hiyas Folks,

Just out of the cocoon, the newest version of my Spectre XUL,



It got a little bigger then the old versions, it measures now

103cm in height, 264cm in wingspan.

Sail is made with 11.4g cubenfibre, spares are custom made UHM carbon with 6mm to 4mm taper, around 5grams at 82.5cm length and 3mm Avia top spreader. Standoffs are 2mm carbon tubes, not solids.

Flight test has to wait till we get some reasonable wind here again, something below 4km/h Smiley


Oh and it weights right now 68.3grams, I have overdone the reinforcements somewhat.
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chilese
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« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2011, 11:22 AM »

If I did the math correctly:

Wingspan: 8.67 feet

Weight: 2.4 ounces

Do you keep it in a solid tube for storage?

It's an amazing achievement!  Smiley
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ae
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« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2011, 11:25 AM »

Indeed, i use fishing-rod transport tubes for the Spectres, they work nicely.
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Danno419
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« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2011, 09:07 PM »

i'd love to see some video of this in flight.  Shocked
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zippy8
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« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2011, 11:46 PM »

Oh and it weights right now 68.3grams, I have overdone the reinforcements somewhat.
I wonder if you've considered some strategic venting to make it lighter still ?  Wink

Mike.
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ae
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« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2011, 12:19 AM »

Zippy,

actually i have, but then i calculated how much sail the cut sail area wights and how much the needed reinforcements for the cutout do and scraped the idea as making the kite to heavy.

As for the video, i want one too! Smiley
But first i need some wind that is below the point where even unpacking the kite on the field would destroy it like we had basically since i finished it ....
Maybe i should start to build a stormkite ...
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Shane
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« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2011, 11:28 AM »

You know that as soon as you start building the storm kite you will have no wind.... Then you'll get to fly your Spectre XUL... Cheesy At least that has always been my experience.
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ae
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« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2011, 11:47 AM »

Thats the plan! Smiley
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Ca Ike
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« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2011, 05:14 AM »

Id be interested to know how this stuff holds up.  I met a few rc sail boat racers while looking into this that have tried the same cloth and have had it  blow out in less that 3 mph.  One guy claimed it was as if the middle of his sail popped.  Some on backpacking forums have had issues with the cloth becoming brittle after just a season or two of use.  Seeing as it was designed for racing sails which aren't used but for a few runs and its relatively new the longevity isn't well known in the real word.

What is that cloth laminated with?  Mylar, vitriex, FEP, ploycarbonate?  THe company website list several different outer layer materials.
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thief
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« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2011, 06:36 AM »

I know that Tim Elverston has been using cuben for a few years now on his Flame quad lines, Morpho Grandes -14' single line and he has not had any issues....and his kites are flown in Florida sun, Nevada deserts, Mediterranean islands.....
There is a bunch of different weights of this fabric....some of it is crunchier than others....
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ae
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« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2011, 12:28 PM »

So far i had zero problems with the cloth at all.
Its just a real pain to work with in this weight class.

And if they have it blown out in 3mph winds they are doing something very very wrong.
I had pushed mine to 8mph and no visible effect on the cloth at all.

And its not that new either, was first used during the Admirals Cup in the 90s.

Is it fragile? Heck yes, its 11g/m2 laminate, but used correctly it will outlast your frame.
And the thicker stuff gets more and more bullet proof.

The standard offerings are mylar laminate.

I had much more problems with the cheap mylar one can use in a kite shop then with the cuben.


Oh and i got to fly the new Spectre today for a bit, but the wind was on the crappy side, but it flew very nicely. But i think for the final version i should go back to a little stiffer and heavier frame, its a little bit to wobbly.
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mikenchico
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« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2011, 02:39 PM »

...t i think for the final version i should go back to a little stiffer and heavier frame, its a little bit to wobbly.

I would think "A little wobbly" at 5 grams for a 6mm diameter rod, that is really pushing the "Better not grab it too hard" envelope, I've seen 6 - 8 gram spars crushed by hand while removing them from the fittings.

Great experimentation though. You have to push the envelope to find the limits, you're investment in time & money, then sharing your results is great and I've followed it enthusiastically.

So you've had your spar's custom wrapped, did you thicken them like some early spars in the stress area's with an extra wrap? Do you think doing so might allow you to keep them a bit lighter while adding some additional stiffness?

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ae
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« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2011, 03:13 PM »

...t i think for the final version i should go back to a little stiffer and heavier frame, its a little bit to wobbly.

I would think "A little wobbly" at 5 grams for a 6mm diameter rod, that is really pushing the "Better not grab it too hard" envelope, I've seen 6 - 8 gram spars crushed by hand while removing them from the fittings.

Great experimentation though. You have to push the envelope to find the limits, you're investment in time & money, then sharing your results is great and I've followed it enthusiastically.

So you've had your spar's custom wrapped, did you thicken them like some early spars in the stress area's with an extra wrap? Do you think doing so might allow you to keep them a bit lighter while adding some additional stiffness?



Yeah, the frame is fragile, i serious had my doubts when i assembled the kite if it survives the assembly, but so far so good. the spares have an extra layer at the thick end, to help with the ferules.
No, i don't think adding just a few stress area reinforcements will help, since the spare overall is a little to soft, bendy. Remember its a full size kite over 8.6 feet in wingspan.

I can either increase the spares diameter to get more stiffness, but that also invokes larger connectors, therefore adding weight, or go back to use Avia Breeze and skinny ul. That spare combo works nicely and has the required stiffness to extend the upper wind range to over 5mph ... lol upper wind range.

But i also want to give the new skayshark zero air a try how they perform. They went the increased diameter route with them.

Or I'm going completely bonkers and wrap my own spares.

Is it worrisome that I already figured out what prepreg i want to use for the wrap? lol.

But the sail material is spot on for such kite style, a pain to work with, especially in the curves of the trailing edge, but well worth it.

When i set out on the project i had one goal, to build a kite that weights half of the one i build like 20 years ago. Which was a Spectrum Dart in 20g/m2 mylar and 4.5mm diameter arrow shafts. And i'm very very close just need to shave a few grams more off somehow Smiley 1.3 to be exact.
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stuntkiter
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« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2011, 07:45 PM »

104 inch wingspan and 2.4 oz? Incredible achievement. That almost needs its own category. SSSUL? Really looking forward to a video.
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Britt O'Halloran
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Ca Ike
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« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2011, 01:17 AM »

So far i had zero problems with the cloth at all.
Its just a real pain to work with in this weight class.

And if they have it blown out in 3mph winds they are doing something very very wrong.
I had pushed mine to 8mph and no visible effect on the cloth at all.

And its not that new either, was first used during the Admirals Cup in the 90s.

Is it fragile? Heck yes, its 11g/m2 laminate, but used correctly it will outlast your frame.
And the thicker stuff gets more and more bullet proof.

The standard offerings are mylar laminate.

I had much more problems with the cheap mylar one can use in a kite shop then with the cuben.


Oh and i got to fly the new Spectre today for a bit, but the wind was on the crappy side, but it flew very nicely. But i think for the final version i should go back to a little stiffer and heavier frame, its a little bit to wobbly.
  THanks for the added info.  I'm trying to get some clarification on the types of failures the Rc guys had.  I'd like to experiment with some of this myself but getting it in the US is a pain atm.
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