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Author Topic: Took everyone advise on 540's  (Read 3070 times)
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Kantaxel
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« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2011, 03:55 PM »

Coming from someone who feels that one cannot totally master any trick, (me) I have to agree with Tom's analysis completely.................I wouldn't even attempt a 540 in that kind of wind with a modern kite..............way too much room for error especially at the sides of the window.................Something old skewl would be easier IMO.........Keep it up.............and keep on with the vids...PLEASE........It's great to see your progress.......very inspirational.

Thanks,
Jim
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obijuankenobe
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« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2011, 03:30 AM »

I just want to be sure my point was clear.

Watching the video, you appear to be walking forward with your arms at your side.  Walking forward here is reducing the pressure in the sail, which is unnecessary.

In fact, it is the change in pressure from flying to slack that provide the conditions necessary for the kite to flare out and stall (1st part of the 540).  If you walk forward at 3' per second while flying down, and then give slack with your arms at 10' per second (for that brief reaching move), the kite only feels 7' per second of that slack.  Do you get what I mean?  Conversely, if you stand still or walk backward, and then combine an aggressive two steps forward with your arm movement, the kite will feel a full 13' per second slack...stall and hang waiting for you to initiate the spin. 

This combination of slack with arms and feet is also what allows you to only give slack with one hand and still get a flare.  The slack on the other side is provided mostly by the feet, so you can keep your arm at your side, get an uneven flare, and tug on that tight line to spin the kite.

I sure hope this helps.  You really are so close. 

obi
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obijuankenobe
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« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2011, 04:14 AM »

And another thing I noticed.  You stop walking forward when you initiate the spin.  Wrong.  You have to continue forward at least through the first 360 degrees.  If you don't, the wind will blow the kite backward, taking up slack, and causing the kite to return to flying position before rotating.  By continuing forward, you will maintain the state of slack long enough to get a full rotation. 

It is very similar to how you must walk forward during backspins and backspin cascades. 

obi
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"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." L daVinci
Kantaxel
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« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2011, 04:29 AM »


It is very similar to how you must walk forward during backspins and backspin cascades. 

obi

And multilazies, axels, and not to the same degree flic-flacs..............(depending on the wind, of course)
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Bob D
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« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2011, 04:33 AM »

This is a great thread! I've gotten some nice 540s with my DS and Exile but the Nirvana is still tough. Thanks to everyone for their insight because it's helping me figure out what makes good technique.
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Bob D.
RobB
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« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2011, 05:12 AM »

The first response is exactly why I posted my 'What am I doing wrong' videos on Classykite. All the members over there are classy enough to keep quiet when they don't have something constructive to say...

Vert, one thing that helped me was to get the kite to go into the move on a diagonal, instead of straight down. It may not be right technically, for the 'judges', but it might help to get set up for the 'tug' or the 'pop' right after the flare.

I'm with the rest of the posters, keep up the videos, it's the fastest way to learn when you fly alone.

~Rob.
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Jimmer
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« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2011, 08:03 AM »

Hummmmmm...let me see if I got this right??

1.  He's passionate about things he does, i.e. his kite flying
2.  He's smart and knows to seek the best people to ask how to do it right, i.e. GWTW forum
3.  He wants to share his learning experience with others trying to learn, i.e. his videos
4.  He loves animals...dogs, polar bears, etc, i.e. ask Rufus
 
 Grin
Keep the vids coming Joe
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vertigo2u
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« Reply #22 on: July 04, 2011, 03:11 PM »

This has been a world of great info... Like a live "Google Search" for information and help.  Over 400 hits and still counting.  I have to learn a "Cascade"... This is surley not about me but everyone who post.  Truely positive stuff.  John Weldon, Obijuan, Really spell it out.  Your so right.  Why waste the wind power.  I am duplicating and taking away.  Charging forward is only making me tired. Cheesy .  But I am getting no were with it.  High winds are OUT for practice.  This whole "link" is a ton of good advise from people who know and try... I truley appreciate all the help posted.  I keep re-reading everything that has been posted.  Between Obi and JWeldon they hit the nail on the head.   Cool Cool Cool Cool Cool Cool Cool Cool

Now it'
s off to Metro Beach ( which is a 20 minute drive...) Tongue
« Last Edit: July 04, 2011, 03:16 PM by vertigo2u » Logged

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John Welden
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« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2011, 10:38 PM »

I keep re-reading everything that has been posted.  Between Obi and JWeldon they hit the nail on the head.   Cool Cool Cool Cool Cool Cool Cool Cool

Now it'
s off to Metro Beach ( which is a 20 minute drive...) Tongue

SWEET, my kite knowledge helped someone!  Cool Cool  It's so funny to have relatively obscure knowledge and have it actually help someone.

With our help or not, I'm sure you'd figure it out own your own. The fact that you're out there busting your ass in 97 degree heat tells me you're the type of guy who has the dedication to figure out all these tricks.  I do have a theory that people can get too much help in the beginning and then get good too quickly. They end up getting board.  I doubt you'd be out there trying 540's if you were into activities that were really easy.  I've seen a lot of guys quit after getting "good' in a short time period.  It must have taken me a couple years to learn the 540, but I'm still doing them today and still love the trick.

Don't let me discourage you from getting help, I'm just sharing something I've seen happen.
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inewham
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« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2011, 12:31 AM »

In fact, it is the change in pressure from flying to slack that provide the conditions necessary for the kite to flare out ...
This combination of slack with arms and feet is also what allows you to only give slack with one hand and still get a flare.

Something that I've found helps when trying to teach 540s is foot positioning to maximise the instant slack when you flare:

If you're going to initiate the 540 with your right hand, as you dive down pull back with your arms to power the kite up and as you do get into a position where your left foot is a stride in front of your right. Then as you throw your hands forward to flare the kite, at the same time step 1 stride forward onto your right foot.
The result is that your kite gets an arms length + a stride of slack so you can transition from powered dive to completely slack flare very quickly.

Its the speed of that transition that gives you the rotation; you shouldn't need to po your right hand a quick brief stop is enough. The flaring kite hits the stopped line and starts to rotate. THen give it *lots* of slack. Doing 180s to landings is a good way to get a feel for that.
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randyg
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« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2011, 03:29 PM »

Took a look at the video and have a comment or two.

First, relax. By that I mean relax and smooth out the inputs. Work to make them flow and attempt to reduce the jerkiness. This will take time but better to work on it now.

As for the 540, you appear to be missing what I've called the "uneven Flare" which is actually a Flare pointed slightly to the right or left. If you get the nose of the kite pointing in the direction of the 540 rotation before you provide the actual input for that rotation, you're ahead of the game. The kite will more readily perform the rotation when you do give the input. If you want, breakdown the trick and just do the uneven Flare over and over until you think you have it. Then throw in the input for the rotation.

Finally, and this is from one videographer to another, stated as constructively as possible. Step away from the fancy transition package that came with your editing program. Shocked)

Back to the 540, you're close so keep up the work and you'll have it. Don't forget to work on doing it both handed. ;-)

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vertigo2u
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« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2011, 07:19 AM »

Thanks Randy I have been watching your Video and trying.  I do get tense before I try.. Need to relax.  I will pratice as you suggested.  I appreciate Your input.  Thanks again.  I flew last night with the Widow Maker ul and it was better.  The Widow Maker I was flying in  the first video was set up wrong.  I broke the left leading edge and fixed it an inch to long on one side.  Flew it last night still had trouble getting it all the way around. I tried my Pro Dancer.  Lips sealed Embarrassed  Things got ugly.  Gonna save that one for a rainy day...


P.S.- movie maker from Windows 7 sucks.  I liked my old movie maker.  Gonna buy new program soon.  Video's are really for me to focus on afterwards.  I watch all the stuff that everyone deosn't see...  Cheesy Cheesy
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