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Author Topic: Mamba sunset and 540's ... lunch for Shane.  (Read 2733 times)
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Kantaxel
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« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2011, 09:06 PM »

Kinda looks like this issue isn't over yet?  Ace..............kinda barkin' up the wrong flagploe here, aren't ya?

I take issue with being called geriatric.......I may be older than you, but I can still function quite well, thank you very much.....It seems that in order, in your opinion, to enjoy this Hobby, as it's been called, one must attain a certain level of skill or else be banished from use in the Photos and Videos section.........Seems like all egomaniacs like to instill their own appreciation of the hobby on every one else,,,,,,,,,,Rather 'hitleresque' I'd say.......Still you ought not to poke our Grizzly benefactor before he removes this Forum from existence.

Just a nickle and a penny's worth Roll Eyes
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Ace
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« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2011, 09:48 PM »

Skill level is irrelevant, That was my original point. This forum should be for all people beginner and experienced. Is it wrong to point out if someone is incorrect in a recommendation, says something outrageous or to have a bit of tongue in cheek fun Shocked

Not looking to upset anyone at all, my comments were not targeted at individuals just a generalization.

BTW I would call telling someone to crawl back under a rock as bullying. Embarrassed

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Steve
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« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2011, 09:54 PM »

Quote
Skill level is irrelevant, That was my original point. This forum should be for all people beginner and experienced.
fair enough ... I agree completely
Quote
Is it wrong to point out if someone is incorrect in a recommendation, says something outrageous or to have a bit of tongue in cheek fun
Not at all, but it needs to be used judiciously and that it be good natured and not mean spirited.
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Ca Ike
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« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2011, 10:11 PM »

Vertigo
The problems are not with your videos, If you want to post them fine. Members will watch them and comment.
The problems lay within the general forum membership. GWTW is vastly becoming a forum for the beginner offering very little for the seasoned pilot. (Not me of course) Some members still fly kites from the 90's if not 80's and think their awesome for it and qualified to comment on everything kiting. Many have flown for years, still can't trick all that well, yet carry significant influence on this forum. They ignore or fail to acknowledge that kiting has moved on, younger trickier pilots are out their flying some really cool stuff. (Especially from overseas) Cool
 DIfferent pilots enjoy different styles of flying.  To condemn them for it and say they are stuck in the past is callous.  

NOw you say kiting has moved on well I must ask how so?  The axel, 540 and lazy susan are  in the first tricks ever invented and are still as popular today as they were then. So, since kiting has moved on should we stop using those tricks all together?  IF you really want to get technical and break down a few of the new tricks the Taz and slot machines are just 540's with a different entry into the flare. Same goes for snap lazy, cynique(lazy cascade), lewis, just variations on the original.  IF you "move on" from the kiting past and eliminate the base tricks then you effectively eliminate all the new stuff since they are all built on the original base tricks (axel, backflip, fade).  Believe it or not the kites from the 80's and 90's can do a lot of the tricks and some can do them all with a bit of additional hardware (mainly yoyo stops).  I'm not trying to be an ass here I just want to understand what you mean.

Quote
This is evident by both professional video's and professional reviews that have been posted previously. (R-sky, SKD, L'Attelier, Benson and others) Good pilots, the best pilots, invest weeks into their video's, countless hours sifting through a ton of video, editing, securing rights to music, adding production value, scenery, time lapse, credits etc etc. only to post their video's here and be met with general disinterest, get 2-maybe 3 responses from members only interested in local kites or kites of yesteryear. No questions as to, whats that kite? how does it perform? where do I get it? who's the Pilot?  Same goes for reviews. Well written well executed professional reviews from the best people out there. Yet no real interest or questions. (unless the kite again is locally made or from 1971???) Embarrassed
 JUst because there are no replies doesn't mean it isn't found useful or enjoyed. There are a few on here that I have gotten info and advice from, yet have never replied to one of their posts.  As for your local made comment, that goes both ways.  There are some overseas that won't buy and american made kite no matter how good it may be.  WE all have our preferences and there is nothing wrong with it.

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Yet a noob posts a video flying in circles and several pages of posts and praise are heaped upon them from all in sundry. It's a little frustrating for the great guys out their flying the flag for our sport. The guys that want to discuss tricks, not stacks and tails, the guys that want to compete and show off their skill. Yes the very guys you and others personally criticize.  Sad
 Again different people like different aspects of kiting and people will post about what they like or don't like when they want to post.   Personally I won't post any more of my vids on here because, like Vertigo, I still ask for help on things and some on here can't do anything but critisize and be insulting so I have found another place for that.

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At the end of the day kiting is fun. Don't let a couple of joke posts get to you to the point where you launch personal attacks, even if you have the moderators on your side. We're all adults here Tongue
 
I agree here, but if the posts were jokes then it would have been better not to post at all because they didn't come across as jokes but big insults.

I actually think Vertigo has a lot of guts to post his vids after all the BS.  He's out having fun, learning new things all the time and wants to share his enjoyment with the rest of us and ,as a few new fliers have pointed out, seeing his progression or lack there of has inspired and shown them things.  Its good to see both sides of kiting, the beginer learning as well as the "pro". It does help to know your not the only one struggling as well as what can be achieved.
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Ca Ike
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« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2011, 10:20 PM »

Skill level is irrelevant, That was my original point. This forum should be for all people beginner and experienced.
  Couldn't agree more.
Quote
Is it wrong to point out if someone is incorrect in a recommendation, says something outrageous or to have a bit of tongue in cheek fun Shocked
  NOt at all but one only has to look at some of the lam kite threads to see how easily that can get out of hand and tempers flare.

Quote
BTW I would call telling someone to crawl back under a rock as bullying. Embarrassed
IF you knew the history surrounding the person this was aimed at not only on this forum but a few others as well then you would understand where this came from.  I agree though that this type of comment is best left unsaid.
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adx1592
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« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2011, 10:39 PM »

I won't miss anything he said. Everything I saw from him was negative.
Also I wont be going anywhere, thank you. I think this place is a good one for novice-masters flyers. Just depends where you look. We can all learn from anything.

Joe is getting pretty good pretty quick. Everything we fly there's a difference. Idk why people can't just be happy with that and move on. He's probably one of the most enthusiastic people I've met in kiting in terms of drive to learn. We should all follow that example even if we're one of the best, or one of the rookies.

Please lets get back on topic here. This is gotten to be WAYYYY to ridiculous.  Huh

540s anyone?

« Last Edit: July 06, 2011, 10:50 PM by adx1592 » Logged

-Devin Cobleigh-Morrison
obijuankenobe
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« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2011, 12:58 AM »

I had ranted here...but I think I missed Ace's point. 

After rereading his post, I still don't quite get it, but anyway....

I do think Ace is overestimating what the young have given to the sport.  And I do think that Ace underestimates how many of the old guys here CAN trick, but aren't particularly focused on or impressed by it.

After all, backspins are exceedingly boring after day 2.  The comete is just tugging unless incorporated as an intentional change in direction, or combined as an entry or exit of another trick.  Multilazies are not only boring, but on many kites they look terrible.  And the yo-fade is a complete flow breaker.

Many were studying Mayet and DeBray before we picked up lines for the first time.  Is it any wonder that then, after all this time, they are not so impressed when someone makes a video with sloppy old tricks and little or no fine kite control?

Where are the new tricks all these young guys are doing?  Honestly, I haven't seen one in a long long time...with the exception of Chris Goff's wing-tip-bouncing-taz machine. 

obi
« Last Edit: July 07, 2011, 04:32 AM by obijuankenobe » Logged

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Bob D
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« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2011, 04:43 AM »

I'm kind of surprised by this thread. When Steve moved to the new site, it seemed we lost the people who tended to flame and insult and I was really glad about that. (I had been belittled by someone who seems to get a lot of credit for abusing other members and didn't appreciate it.) I can't remember reading any abuse until recently and I didn't think it was right but I decided to keep quiet about it because I didn't want to get abused in return. (The people who abuse others seem to have big egos and are bullies - not my kind of people.)

That said, I think the new forum is kinder and gentler and I like to do my part to encourage others because I love kites. I can't understand why someone would discourage someone and comment that their posting is a waste of bandwidth.

I've been a member of the forum for a long time and it's the one forum that I'm most comfortable with. (Though I DO miss Nosedivers. I can't seem to find out what happened there.) This is such a small community that we need each other if we want to support our kite buildingers and grow our hobby. I say keep posting vids and looking for help and asking for opinions - 99% of the people here at any skill level are glad to help. Good riddance to those who can't play nice. Like Thumper says, "If you don't got nothin' nice to say, don't say nothin' at all."


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Bob D.
RonG
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« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2011, 07:19 AM »

Just a few thoughts from everything I've read here:

- New fliers have always been welcome on this forum, and have generally been received with open arms.  Even on the "old" site.  Yes, there have been exceptions both then and now, but it often depended a lot on how the new person behaved.  Those earnestly looking for advice and a community have rarely had issues.  Those arriving with an attitude or a chip on their shoulder...they had their share of run-ins.  This is an observation from many years on the GWTW forums, and no, I'm not saying it applies to the OP.

- The old forum allowed for a lot more "spirited", and yes, sometimes downright nasty exchanges, and that turned off a lot of people.  OTOH it was also at the forefront of huge changes in the US sport kite scene, changes that everyone here benefits from now.  It was there that many US fliers, both recreational and competitive, got their first glimpse of the modern class of European kites, and the flying styles that accompanied them.  Then once we had a handle on the kites and the tricks, it was from the ranks of GWTW members that the US representatives to the first and only Freestyle World Cup were chosen. It was there that several manufacturers, designers and their reps ran subforums dedicated to helping anyone with questions.  The old forum was where we came to discuss, debate, socialize and learn during a very exciting time in US sport kiting.  Anyone who remembers it as just a nasty old place full of cretinous low-lifes either wasn't around long enough to know, or wasn't really paying attention.

- Frankly I don't care what kind of videos people post of themselves flying.  I can usually tell by the subject line if it's something I'll want to watch, or at least within the first 10 seconds of watching it.  If I don't like it, I don't watch it.  Easy, and no comments necessary.

- Not sure how "old guy" got automatically associated with "no real skills and flies moldy old kites".  I'm an old guy and I'm pretty spry.  I'm not going to try to keep up with Chris Goff these days, but I can still throw down pretty good on the field.  Likewise for a few other "old guys" I know.

- Big egos are a fact of life in this and any other pursuit.  Most of the truly gifted fliers I have known have had fairly big egos, and it's often part of what drives them to excel.  Doesn't mean you have to be a bully, though.

- I urge anyone who says "it's just kites, not a big deal and don't take it seriously" to consider what their kite bag would look like if every person who touched a kite thought that way.  People who develop great kites and the flying skills that others like to watch and emulate have generally taken kites pretty seriously.  There's a difference between being a pr!ck and taking kite seriously.

Thanks for listening.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2011, 07:31 AM by RonG » Logged
vertigo2u
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« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2011, 08:37 AM »

My dimes worth.. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
« Last Edit: July 07, 2011, 11:35 AM by vertigo2u » Logged

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thief
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« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2011, 08:50 AM »

and this is exactly how we have a habit of getting off track..............
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zippy8
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« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2011, 09:09 AM »

So... are we in favour of sleeving or not ? I'm confused. Embarrassed

Mike.
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Kantaxel
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« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2011, 09:25 AM »

So... are we in favour of sleeving or not ? I'm confused. Embarrassed

Mike.

From everything I've read here.............We ARE in FAVOR of sleeving.............WE ALL know that an unsleeved knot loses more than fifty percent of it's strength.............That is a FACT!

 Embarrassed
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Bob D
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« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2011, 09:48 AM »

Good. Let's tie it off and lock it down now...
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Bob D.
Allen Carter
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« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2011, 12:30 PM »

Who's going to take this sport to the Olympics, if not the young pilots? They need our support!!!  Roll Eyes

 Cheesy


Oh, and well said Ron. As usual. For an old guy.




(that was my 1000th post. Cool.)
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Allen, AKA kitehead
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