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Author Topic: Hey No Fair!  (Read 2626 times)
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Ace
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« on: July 07, 2011, 03:14 PM »

Geez a guy goes to sleep and misses the lot.
I was rather enjoying that discussion.........

Anyway thanks all for the debate. Especially RonG's comments, I guess in a nutshell that's what I was trying to say. Despite the stereotypical overtones. Smiley

No need to reply!
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Ca Ike
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« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2011, 07:29 PM »

But alas I will.  It was becoming a good discussion in some points.  NOw I'd like to hear what people think the future of kiting  will be or if we have hit the plateau of what kites can do?  LIke Obi said, the few "new" trix just look lame.  Like someone messed up a trick and decided to name it instead of admitting a screw up.  The le-twix really looks like a badly done wap-do-wap, a trick I can't do yet but my screw ups have looked a lot like a perfect le-twix Tongue
« Last Edit: July 07, 2011, 07:32 PM by Ca Ike » Logged
DD
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« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2011, 07:51 PM »

+1 on RonG's comment
Passionate discussion is not a bad thing
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Sine Metu!
WinterDaze
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« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2011, 08:07 PM »

 Undecided

Well CA....

What I am trying to do is:

Once you have all the tricks ticked, both sides Smiley you get to start to put them together and start to make it look good at last.... All the big names are 'style merchants', you can see their 'signature' in all the tricks they fly... same tricks, different style  Cool

I think it's only then that style really starts to kick in properly for all flyers.

I see it as: Tricks are to flying as Scales are to music.

That's what this 'whole thing' seems to be about, some want to learn tricks as an endpoint, and some see that as the first step to styling out  Cool

Maybe it's all a disclosure thing, say you post a video of lets say a person leaning to 540 flic flac The poster should post a warning  Wink that this is for educational/learning reasons, sure put music with it if you want, but calling it a kite video might be a misnomer. And if you want advice, don't be afraid to ask...

Kite flying display videos of skill and grace should probably have more than 1 trick (Steve's VF entry exempted) , cos there's heaps of one trick wonders out there.



Something like 2c worth I'd guess


WD

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WinterDaze AoF
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« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2011, 08:24 PM »

That leads to this question then... I was just talking about this with Joe a few days back.

Should there be another section to the photo and video section here? One looking for advice and thoughts, and one as a 'display' section and all that? Personally, I'd like that a lot.
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-Devin Cobleigh-Morrison
Ca Ike
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« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2011, 08:39 PM »

Undecided

Well CA....

What I am trying to do is:

Once you have all the tricks ticked, both sides Smiley you get to start to put them together and start to make it look good at last.... All the big names are 'style merchants', you can see their 'signature' in all the tricks they fly... same tricks, different style  Cool

I think it's only then that style really starts to kick in properly for all flyers.

I see it as: Tricks are to flying as Scales are to music.

That's what this 'whole thing' seems to be about, some want to learn tricks as an endpoint, and some see that as the first step to styling out  Cool

Maybe it's all a disclosure thing, say you post a video of lets say a person leaning to 540 flic flac The poster should post a warning  Wink that this is for educational/learning reasons, sure put music with it if you want, but calling it a kite video might be a misnomer. And if you want advice, don't be afraid to ask...

Kite flying display videos of skill and grace should probably have more than 1 trick (Steve's VF entry exempted) , cos there's heaps of one trick wonders out there.



Something like 2c worth I'd guess


WD


Yep flow is the endpoint but not the end because you can always figure out were in your flow you can link another trick or a different transition between tricks. Even tweek more and add freestyle to a precision routine.  BUt new tricks? I can see new variations or combos (or old ones that haven't been done mainstream in a while) but have we reached the limit of what current kites can do?  I've been looking to airplane pilots like Sean tucker to see if there's anything they do tat I can mimic on a kite.

That leads to this question then... I was just talking about this with Joe a few days back.

Should there be another section to the photo and video section here? One looking for advice and thoughts, and one as a 'display' section and all that? Personally, I'd like that a lot.
A subsection to the beginers corner might not be a bad idea at all or just say post your help wanted in the beginners section

« Last Edit: July 07, 2011, 08:46 PM by Ca Ike » Logged
Dolphinboy
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« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2011, 10:06 PM »

That leads to this question then... I was just talking about this with Joe a few days back.

Should there be another section to the photo and video section here? One looking for advice and thoughts, and one as a 'display' section and all that? Personally, I'd like that a lot.

I think Joe should probably just post the videos to the beginner section since many seem to be ending up as beginner advice type threads. I like his enthusiasm but it kind of clogs up the Photo and Video forum. But it's not the end of the world or anything Grin
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RonG
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« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2011, 02:35 AM »

Once you have all the tricks ticked, both sides Smiley you get to start to put them together and start to make it look good at last.... All the big names are 'style merchants', you can see their 'signature' in all the tricks they fly... same tricks, different style  Cool

I think it's only then that style really starts to kick in properly for all flyers.

I see it as: Tricks are to flying as Scales are to music.

Honestly, I decided long ago that staying on top of every trick in the book isn't worth my time.  Many are just variations on a theme, doing a "multi" where before there was just a "onesy", or are fairly dependent on kite style (which is always a trade-off - you gain something, you lose something else).  Not saying that there isn't serious skill involved in every trick variation, just that I see it as a cost/benefit arrangement.  If I don't care for the way a trick looks or feels, I don't spend time on it. 

All of that said, you don't need to run the full menu of tricks-du-jour to have serious style.  It's a question of confidence, consistency, and "owning" the entire flying space.  You know it when you see it - gravitas.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2011, 02:38 AM by RonG » Logged
obijuankenobe
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« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2011, 03:19 AM »

All of that said, you don't need to run the full menu of tricks-du-jour to have serious style.  It's a question of confidence, consistency, and "owning" the entire flying space.  You know it when you see it - gravitas.

This quote should be accentuated by a wave file containing the sound of an arrow hitting the target and vibrating loudly.  (Like sorta <THUMP-boinggggggggggg>)

I would suggest that the absence of this presence which is projected by a flier through the kite...owning the space...is most evident between tricks.  This is when you can clearly see what the flier is trying to accomplish.  Essentially, either this part of the flight is important to you, or it's just something you have to do to get into position for your next yank and spank. 

I get annoyed when it's obvious that the pilot doesn't care about this part of his or her flying.

obi
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"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." L daVinci
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« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2011, 03:27 AM »

All of that said, you don't need to run the full menu of tricks-du-jour to have serious style.  It's a question of confidence, consistency, and "owning" the entire flying space.  You know it when you see it - gravitas.

This quote should be accentuated by a wave file containing the sound of an arrow hitting the target and vibrating loudly.  (Like sorta <THUMP-boinggggggggggg>)
Quote
 

More than mere words, poetry! Nice work gentlemen
      Mike
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thief
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« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2011, 03:30 AM »

That leads to this question then... I was just talking about this with Joe a few days back.

Should there be another section to the photo and video section here? One looking for advice and thoughts, and one as a 'display' section and all that? Personally, I'd like that a lot.

I think Joe should probably just post the videos to the beginner section since many seem to be ending up as beginner advice type threads. I like his enthusiasm but it kind of clogs up the Photo and Video forum. But it's not the end of the world or anything Grin

is it a video? then i t belongs in the video section.....If i find sport kite stuff in the single line section i move it....i think that Steve laid out the forum pretty well to start with....

what is meant by "it kind of clogs up the Photo and Video forum" Dolphinboy?   How could it clog a video clog it up?   or are meaning that you feel that you have to look at every video and there are some that are a waste of time to you?    if so i feel the same way - but i just do not look at them.
rob
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Bob D
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« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2011, 04:15 AM »

If it's a sort order thing then is first a video and then a beginner thing or is it a beginner thing and then a video. Just me, videos belong in 'video' and then the post is for advice or instruction. No, I'm kind of thinking I'm wasting bandwidth.
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« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2011, 04:28 AM »

All this brewhaha over a few videos.  Roll Eyes

Denny
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« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2011, 04:32 AM »

I think having a learning area would be a decent idea. That way it would be easier for the disinterested young experts to avoid having to see beginners' learning videos.  Roll Eyes
But seriously, I would post my videos under that catagory, I was doing the same thing as Vert last year when I hit a glass ceiling with my flying. My 'What am I doing Wrong ?' thread helped me out of my rut, thanks to the suggestions from more skilled pilots from around the world.

http://classykite.org/ck/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1270736832

I fly alone 99.9% of the time, there are no local fliers near me, so this was an invaluable way for me to move forward with my flying. If setting up a separate area helps to keep the peace, I think it's a great idea. I'll bet it would be one of the most viewed catagories here, anyway.

~Rob.
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RonG
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« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2011, 06:08 AM »

All this brewhaha over a few videos.  Roll Eyes
The unfortunate catalyst perhaps, but let's hope this discussion is morphing into something more meaningful Smiley

I would suggest that the absence of this presence which is projected by a flier through the kite...owning the space...is most evident between tricks.  This is when you can clearly see what the flier is trying to accomplish.  Essentially, either this part of the flight is important to you, or it's just something you have to do to get into position for your next yank and spank.
Yup.
I had that moment of enlightenment about 12 years ago.  I had been flying for a couple of years, busily learning every trick there was to learn, and had gotten to the point where I was a decent trick flier.  One day a flying buddy said to me "You can trick like all get-out, no doubt about it.  Now you just need to learn how to fly".  At the time it pissed me off a little, because my natural reaction was "I am flying", but when I started competing it sank in.  Tricks in isolation are only interesting for so long.  I'm just as interested in how the trick is entered, where and how the kite exits, and what happens before the next trick.

The pyrotechnics are great, but if the whole package is not there, ultimately it's not much of a show.

« Last Edit: July 08, 2011, 06:11 AM by RonG » Logged
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