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Author Topic: Using weights on zero wind kites  (Read 1745 times)
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Norfolk
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« on: July 16, 2011, 11:25 PM »

Hi

I have a Horvath Urban ninja  and 1.1  Kite walker.de  and Hydrid 240

I use 10g weight  on the Ninja
5g weight on the 1.1 Kite walker
and no weight on the 240

like to hear what other out there do

many thanks
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jeepersjoey
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« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2011, 06:33 AM »

Putting weights on a Zero wind kinda defeats the purpose...however, I can understand the reasoning.

I have several UL and SUL (and a true 0 wind...the Ocius SUL - ROCKS!!).  I use weight on my Saber Light (3 nuts) which is an UL.

I have two all-black tails for the Ocius (it too is black).  When people see me fly it with the tails I smile and say "I like a challenge".

Did not really answer your question.  Just a comment from the peanut gallery!
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Lee S
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« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2011, 10:33 AM »

10 g does seem like a bit much for an Urban Ninja, considering the kite alone weighs around 50 g.  I think you could do with less weight and some careful tuning. Generally, a little weight is good on zero wind kites, especially on the nose. This keeps the nose down and helps the kite glide better, especially outdoors where there might be slight air movement. (not really a breeze )  If you can keep the nose down, you can get the kite upwind from you without stalling. The Long Way Home comes with a removable nose cap/weight, weighs a couple if grams I think, and it helps with gliding if there's a tiny breeze. The problem I've been having with larger zero wind kites is that they don't like to turn if they're locked into a glide. They turn better at or very near stall. Of course, my experiences are with the more delta-shaped kites, like your Hybrid 240.
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Norfolk
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« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2011, 05:23 AM »

Thanks for the reply

I have the 10g on the nose of the Ninja  and mostly fly outdoors in low wind
so maybe fits with your points  - it feels and acts a bit too leaf  like to me without the weight

Would be good  to hear a comparison of a Longway home vs  a Hybrid 240
and also Longway with and without weight

I also have a 240 and would agree  regarding turning   guess with the more delta shape compared with Ninja's they are going to be more dart like

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mikenchico
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« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2011, 07:28 AM »

... I have the 10g on the nose of the Ninja  and mostly fly outdoors in low wind
so maybe fits with your points  - it feels and acts a bit too leaf  like to me without the weight


Ted here in Chico has his Ninja tuned pretty nice, it glides very well and the only wieght he has added as far as I know is a small ball bearing swivel at the line attachment. His is the optional wider version of the plans. With some tuning you can get much of that "Leafing" out, the rest is line control. And Ted has a pretty good touch with them,  like on the Wala/Aerobe keeping just a bit of tension on the line by letting it slip through your fingers as you're gliding away will keep the nose down, gliding toward you or into the wind is a bit trickier. Ted is Gliderdude here on the forum if you want to PM him.

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asburyparkjohn
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« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2011, 05:40 PM »

I use no weight on the Horvath 240 but I am no expert on gliding. It's so rare when there is no wind on the beach. Problem is I should fly inland but the H240 is used for those rare mornings when the wind is zero in the summer at the beach. At the price they sell these Horvath's I always assumed they were perfectly tuned?
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thief
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« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2011, 06:53 PM »

at most i have a quarter on a kite...most of mine do not have any weights...they are tuned better and so do not need the weight (but that is my feeling on sport kites too they should be designed so that they do not need the weights)....

My Windfire Designs Morpho Grande supposedly works well as a glider with a tennis ball cut and slipped onto its nose....but it is a 14' wide delta......

The first Plutz kites from CEEWAN had a lead sinker on them.....but they were PHENOMENAL climbing kites.....then the second version was designed to be a great glider.....but it could barely climb...the 3rd version of the Plutz (on their way now) has the climb designed back in and still retained the glide...I am not in possession of one yet to verify that though....so...there is design and tuning that can be done to not need any weights....

This is also why i feel that the bridle on the wala walaXL and the Laima suck...it is tooo short...there is not enough working area to tweak the bridle to get it to fly really well..

Mike: what are you referring to when you say "leafing out"Huh

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Kantaxel
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« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2011, 07:18 PM »

This is also why i feel that the bridle on the wala walaXL and the Laima suck...it is tooo short...there is not enough working area to tweak the bridle to get it to fly really well..


Have you tried any mods on the flying wings designs?  Would just lengthening the bridle by 'bout two inches give one enough area to really make a difference?

thanks,
Jim
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mikenchico
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« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2011, 10:20 PM »

Mike: what are you referring to when you say "leafing out"Huh


The original poster used the term "Leaf like" refering to how how the kite tends to act like a falling leaf, rocking back & forth as it falls straight down. I was just going with his terminolgy since it was a good description IMO - I didn't say "leafing out" but that you can tune most of the "Leafing" out   Wink   but now I have to come up with a good way to use "Leafing out", I like it  Cheesy

- it feels and acts a bit too leaf  like to me without the weight



I've never played with the tune on an Urban Ninja myself, John (King-J) helped me get my Aerobe/Wala flying to my liking (better glide) by relaxing the bow in the spine. A kite I didn't like much became a kite I spent a couple hours with just working it all the way out to the end of the supplied line then bringing it back and working it all the way out again, it was a blast.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2011, 10:33 PM by mikenchico » Logged

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KaoS
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« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2011, 10:58 PM »

Weight at the nose is a quick and easy way to improve the glide property of zero wind SLKs.  It helps to keep the nose down in the glide, but it does add weight (duh!)

Alternatively, a small ribbon tail which weighs less than the nose weight has the same overall effect because it lifts the tail, so it prevents the nose from rising in the glide.

It can also add a new dimension to the visual side of the zero wind experience.

As your experience grows though, you'll find controlling line tension will give you all the glide you want without either weight or tails

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Kevin Sanders

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« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2011, 01:46 PM »

I am not sure how much weight it actually is, but my Focus Manta has a HUGE weight, maybe close to a pound?? on the nose.  We flew with the weight off and it was not nearly as good as with the weight installed.  As mentioned above, the glide dramatically suffered with the weight off the nose.  Flight was not effected at all with the weight on or off.  It felt exactly the same, just the glide was the issue.
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