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Author Topic: Flexifoil Hyper 16 spars  (Read 4577 times)
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Ca Ike
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« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2011, 06:38 PM »

HEy mike Hang em high has 10 mm carbon rods that should work fine but they are 60 inches long.  Will have a smidgen more flex than 11mm but should be fine. PArt # ct3930  bout half way down the linked page
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« Last Edit: August 17, 2011, 07:41 PM by chilese » Logged
Smeagol
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« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2011, 11:46 AM »

Nah, that's the strange part of it.  No signs of stress or wear (that I could detect), no burrs/cracks in the ferrules.  The spar was fully seated, you can tell as it broke a little over 2.5" down.  I had them all taped w/electrical tape so they were definitely in there tight.  It was sabotage!  Wink  Heh, nah I doubt that was the case.

I'm guessing it was just old age or possibly a defect in the rod from the very beginning.  I was told this kite was never flown but of course had no way to verify that.

Trying to figure if I should go with that 10mm spar and try building it up, or go w/12mm and sand it down to fit the ferrule.  Mine are definitely 11mm (or a smidge more).  I just measured the spar with a micrometer @ .435-.440, the inside of the ferrule is .440-.445.  Maybe they used slightly different sized rod over the years?  Zeke's Hyper 16 has 11.5mm or .450"

thanks,
  Mike
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Ca Ike
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« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2011, 03:04 PM »

Nah, that's the strange part of it.  No signs of stress or wear (that I could detect), no burrs/cracks in the ferrules.  The spar was fully seated, you can tell as it broke a little over 2.5" down.  I had them all taped w/electrical tape so they were definitely in there tight.  It was sabotage!  Wink  Heh, nah I doubt that was the case.

I'm guessing it was just old age or possibly a defect in the rod from the very beginning.  I was told this kite was never flown but of course had no way to verify that.

Trying to figure if I should go with that 10mm spar and try building it up, or go w/12mm and sand it down to fit the ferrule.  Mine are definitely 11mm (or a smidge more).  I just measured the spar with a micrometer @ .435-.440, the inside of the ferrule is .440-.445.  Maybe they used slightly different sized rod over the years?  Zeke's Hyper 16 has 11.5mm or .450"

thanks,
  Mike
MOre than likely they got a ferrule closest to the spar size they used.  you can go either way and it should work but sanding on the 12 MM might weaken the rod end.  You'd be better off reaming out the ferrul to fit the 12mm.
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Smeagol
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« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2011, 04:30 PM »

Yes, I've thought of machining out the ferrules to fit a 12mm fiberglass or carbon spar assuming I can readily find them.  Wouldn't be too much material removed from the ferrule so I don't think it would weaken it significantly.

Did a little diggin' around and it seems .472 solid fiberglass is somewhat common, so this may be an option.

-Mike
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Ca Ike
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« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2011, 06:10 PM »

It's not the ferrule you have to worry about but the flexibility of the spar you will be putting in.  Solid fiberglass doesn't have a whole lot of flex.  YOu need to go with a tube.  ANy change in flexibility of the spar will change how the foil flies.
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thief
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« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2011, 03:21 AM »

YOu need to go with a tube.  ANy change in flexibility of the spar will change how the foil flies.
huh? this is the sections where you do not want any flex.....it should be as flat as can....
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Ca Ike
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« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2011, 04:36 AM »

YOu need to go with a tube.  ANy change in flexibility of the spar will change how the foil flies.
huh? this is the sections where you do not want any flex.....it should be as flat as can....

YEP your right I misread the specs but it still stands that a change in flexibility will change the arc of the foil in flight and change how it flies.  HOW much it changes and what thats change will be remains to be seen. On some power foils changing the arc changes the pull and I would think the same would apply to flex foils.
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ae
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« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2011, 06:37 AM »

Yes it does,

In a flexifoil the "flat" central section determines how much power the kite has, while the curve outer parts are required for the controlled flight. So the wider your center section is the more power the kite generates. A curved center section will lower the amount of power produced. But curve produces stability.  If your goal is power, you want the center section to be as wide and flat as possible, while still keeping the curve on the outer section to be able to control the kite in a reasonable fashion.

For a 16" if i had to chose the rods for it, standard flexifoil tapered spars on the outside, connected to 12mm solid carbon and then for the center 16mm solid carbon.
I think the 11mm is not strong enough for the whole width.
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Smeagol
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« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2012, 12:42 PM »

Finally tested my SLE idea on the Hyper 16 yesterday, here's the result:



It lasted about 1 minute. Wink  Even with a "stiff" SLE it just couldn't handle the load, snapped on both sides right where I had glued the solid ends in.  I think my next step is to try a larger diameter solid rod and machine out the ferrules to fit.  Only issue I'm running into with this idea is the next size up in carbon seems to be 12.7mm which may be too much material removed from the ferrules.  I'll have to look at them closer.

Another idea is if I can find a long metal center ferrule section that I could use to replace the SLE but it would need to be at least 24" long.  Not sure it would be practical weight-wise.  I've noticed that .472 ferrules are available but I'm only finding fiberglass rod in that size, no carbon.  Suppose I could try out fiberglass for the center rod or maybe try replacing the entire thing with fiberglass, but I suspect it may have too much flex.

-Mike
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 12:45 PM by Smeagol » Logged
thief
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« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2012, 01:04 PM »

you can get a solid carbon rod up to 1/2"....
http://www.goodwinds.com/merch/list.shtml?cat=carbon.solidroundcarbon

the center rod on the flexis should be very stiff....the edges should have more flex to them.....
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Smeagol
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« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2012, 01:13 PM »

Hey Rob... yeah, I saw those.  Just not sure if machining the ferrules from 11mm to 12.7mm will weaken them too much.  I have to measure and see what their O.D. is.
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zippy8
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« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2012, 01:15 PM »

Even with a "stiff" SLE it just couldn't handle the load....
Stiffness is the ability to resist deflection under load, not the capacity to withstand it. A stiff spar won't necessarily be bent very far before it catastrophically fails.

The centre section of a Flexi. needs to be both stiff (to remain flat) and strong (to not explode). What it needs to be is SOLID carbon fibre rod, with as few ferrules (ie; weak points) as possible). I bent the thick brass ferrules on a Super 10 by not pushing them all the way in and they were beyond tough.

The old Hyperlight spar sets that Flexifoil made to ULificate their foils (yeah, it's a word) used tubes in the centre section and had a max. wind speed just slightly above their minimum.

Mike.
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« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2012, 06:29 PM »

Mike: drop paul at Goodwinds a note..you can also find Ray Merry over at cobra kites...both of them should have ideas....
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mikenchico
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« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2012, 11:07 PM »

Mike: might be better to shim your end pieces up to fit inside a 1/2" ferrule for the 1/2" solid carbon.

Here's a couple options for ferrule material

.500" ID x .750" OD - 6061 Aluminum

.510" ID x .750" OD - 304 Stainless Steel

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thief
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« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2012, 04:14 AM »

Mike: might be better to shim your end pieces up to fit inside a 1/2" ferrule for the 1/2" solid carbon.

Here's a couple options for ferrule material

.500" ID x .750" OD - 6061 Aluminum

.510" ID x .750" OD - 304 Stainless Steel



the followup question in my mind is what is the size of the leading edge sleeve???   can a 3/4" chunk of metal fit in there?
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