Help !! Obi, John W.,RandyG,RobB... Please analyze this video..

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[vertigo2u]

If you guys could give me some input.  I think I am going from the fade to turtle to the roll up ?? Not sure how it works but I am duplicating the move so I know it's working what ever it is >>.   Started working the turtle then the lazy susan back to fade then turtle.  Then the lines seem wrap around and when I pull they unroll   around 5 minute area..... I am So Confused... :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(  Help !!!!!! I think I am on the verge but don't fully understand it... All comments are welcome.  Need to have this looking good by next week...

Roll up's.wmv

[doddg]

Nice video! I think it's awesome to post videos of your practice for the purpose of getting some help. This is what I used to do in my classes. Watch, evaluate and then give some pointers. Let's see if I can remember how...

If I may, it seems to me that you need a cleaner Turtle before your pull for the rotating turtle.

 Your kite looks like one of those that takes time  to settle into the turtle with that method and when it does, the nose is really pointing down (belly away from you) (in those winds speed anyway), and you are allowing the kite to do that, but your tug for the rotating portion seems to a bit too abrupt, causing the kite to over rotate and the nose comes forward, another words it begins to wrap up at the point. Have you ever tried the one handed pull set up? For example, fly the kite just to the left of center of the window, nose up, keep left hand in position, tug right and step forward. I usually start the step before the movement to help reduce pressure in the sail.

The kite will go into a turtle, a fast turtle so as soon the kite clearly settled into the turtle, and it will go fast, tug. It is almost like one smooth move. It is what I do to begin the jacobs ladder usually. This movement is also known as a snap turtle, can be done at many flying angles. It is also the first movement of some 540 tricks. I sincerely hope that helps. Best wishes, Dodd

[NormP]

Joe

Some where around 34-35-36-37 seconds in your video you are in a fade position and you do what is called a lateral roll-out. As soon as you can see the complete back side of the kite, pull (fast) and give lots of slack (walk forward if necessary) and you will have your kite rolled up. From viewing your video you are capable of putting your kite in a fade from a pancake. Right now that should be great for you (until you can learn other methods). So, if your goal is to roll your kite up:

1. Pancake to fade. (50-51 seconds in your video)
2. Lateral roll out. (34-35-36-37 seconds in your video)
3. Pull/Pop both lines and give lots of slack.
   
(Sometimes it helps to have one wrap on your lines before you start the process)

Joe................It would help everybody to know what trick you are wanting to accomplish
I thought you were wanting to do a roll up.

Where is "creep-o" when you need him? 

[zippy8]

If you guys could give me some input.

Just FYI....

This video contains content from WMG, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.

It's also 6 minutes long I see.

If you or anyone else wants specific advice about a specific bit of flying, would it not be to your advantage to let everyone see it and attempt not to outstay any welcome that might be extended ? Brevity is a virtue. And if you make it short then there'll be less reason to stick someone else's music on it too.

HTH

Mike.

[vertigo2u]

Zippy I didn't knowit was blocked....how do I unblock it..go to Vimeo


Trying to do jacob's ladder but found the lines wrapping.  So I figure to learn the roll..like I said ..I am confused as to what I amdoing... Norm I am trying to roll it  up I think...

[Allen Carter]

What's happening next week?

[vertigo2u]

Norm, your beautiful...Where is the "little creep-o" when U need him ?  He took off for school this past week-end in Chicago..........  Wants to be a Music Major get a Phd.  How many clerks at a kite store have Phd.'s   Jon could set the kid up with a 401K... He'd have a future.   Instead he leaves me after a fanstatic fun summer to figure out this move by myself...before my Solus arrives next week.
Just when your having a good time.... 

 The Little Creep-O ................

When do the linbes wrap..during the pancake to turtle do they roll over the kite.. I am lost as to figure that part out...

[NormP]

I'll send you a link to one of my explanation "ruff cut"  "creep" videos.
You really need to practice and learn to maintain your kite in a fade.
Lots of tricks are started from the fade position: Roll-Ups, Jacobs Ladder, French Flick-Flacs, Wap do Waps.
I'll see what I have. Maybe I'll have to make one "just for you" to do a Roll-Up from Fade position.

Is there any rerason why you can't figure out the hand movements for the roll-up on Randy G's site or Mama74? I started learning things when I started watching more of theirs and making less of mine.  Both of theirs and many others others will be a lot better than anything I have made or send to you.   

[RobB]

Hey Joe...

Wow... your first bit of advice from a pilot that I have a great deal of respect for, and is responsible for giving me a good start on my road to tricking. His advice is gold, but my problem is remembering advice like that when I get back out to the field, and actually try to implement it. Read it many times, slowly, memorize it, and visualize it when you're going to sleep.
After watching your video twice, the thing that strikes me the most about your flying is that it is very similar to my own a few years ago. I flew for a number of years just for fun, looping, stalling, sliding and figure 8ing before I ever saw any slack line tricks. The biggest thing about my flying back then was keeping the kite from crashing, which meant stepping back when the going got rough. Stepping forward to give slack goes against this learned reaction, and it's a thing that you're going to have to un-learn. I notice that when you get the kite into a turtle, you start stepping back as you give the rotation input. This leads to unexpected behavior, and ultimately the tip wraps that you had in the third minute or your video. Just about all of the tricks that I saw in the video would benifit from a step or two towards the kite as you execute the trick.
Here are my notes from viewing the video...

0:45 turtle-->lazy, walk forwards, not back

1:45 good 540 w/ enough slack

2:05 nice axel, good slack

3:20--->3:50 not enough slack = tip wraps...

5:15 didn't even see how you got wrapped to get the unroll.

5:29 same...

Want to hear something funny ? Once you get the roll-up input down, you'll start to struggle with the un-roll. 

Please take this all in the best way, just trying to be helpful, seeing you go through the same things that I've been going through in the last few years. The others here reading this, and giving advice are the people that I learned from, and this is how I've learned so far. Keep it up, I think you've made big progress over the summer, and by this time next year, this will all seem second nature.

~Rob.


BTW... here's some reading that might help... helped me. Print it & read it when you get a chance.

http://prismkites.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1174937596

http://prismkites.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1213804807

http://prismkites.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1221176797

http://prismkites.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1213810335

http://prismkites.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1213804747

Good stuff ! 

[timothymcmackin]

Joe, I like your videos -- you have a graceful style that's fun to watch.

I've been working on yo-yo tricks, but from a different angle. I'm not nearly as good with the turtle as you show that you are; instead, I'm trying to roll up as I come out of a fade. So I get into a stable fade, lateral roll out of it, and pop both lines hard and run forward for slack so the kite rolls up. The problem is timing: too late with the pop and the kite is already rolling away from me so my pull doesn't have any effect; too early and the kite isn't oriented the right way as it rolls, so I don't catch the yo-yo stoppers. This is the technique that Norm mentions.

Here's a rough video from my cell-phone camera. Spoiler alert: I finally get a good one at the end, but I still can't get this trick to work more than once in 20+ attempts. Any tips?

Learning to fruit roll-up a stunt kite

-Tim

[Shane]

Timothy,

  I am not a pro by any means.. but I think what might help you is... when you are in the fade position... it is very difficult to get the kite to backspin when the kite is flat... you need to kinda rock it so the kite is uneven... then when the kite is on it's way back to being even pull the low wing on it's way up... so.. if (when in fade position) the left wing is lower than the right and back on it's way to being flat then you would pull your right hand to backspin... and visa-versa. if the right wing is the low one and on it's way back to even. then pull your left hand... When the kite is already going in the direction you want it to go before you make the tug it helps the kite get through the rotation properly.

  I hope this helps ...

   Shane

[obijuankenobe]

I can't watch the vid as it's blocked for copyrights.

obi

[RonG]

Joe................It would help everybody to know what trick you are wanting to accomplish
I thought you were wanting to do a roll up.

That would be my question.  What is it you're trying to do?  

If you're trying to complete a jacob's ladder but the kite is wrapping when you're trying to rotate from turtle back to fade, then your problem is essentially timing and slack management.  There are kites that just let you bang out the 1/2 lazy rotation any which way, then just yank to pull it back around to fade - and many more that require a bit more finesse.  Some kites (like yours) that don't settle into a deep, stable turtle need to be coaxed from turtle to fade.  In most cases you don't let the kite rotate to a full, nose-away turtle before tweaking the lines to pop back to fade - you do it while the kite is still rotating and not all the way there yet.

Of course all of the above assumes you're attempting a jacobs ladder.  Let us know exactly what trick or combo you're after.

[NormP]

I am So Confused...

Joe.................After reading your description again I'm with Ron G. I think you are trying
for a Jacobs Ladder.

[tpatter]

Tim,

I think that you are hitting it too early and too hard.   Wait until the kite is level before you pop/slack for the yoyo.  You also want to pop both sides with equal strength and then be ready to apply tension to catch the stoppers after the kite pitches.

It's more of a speed than a power thing.  It does not take too much of a pop or slack even to do a yoyo that way on the Z.  If you give too much slack then you will not be able to easily take the excess back in order to catch the yoyo stoppers and maintain control of the kite.

Looks good - practice some more with some fine tuning and you will have it.

Tom

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