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Author Topic: What is the wind speed for a vented kite.  (Read 4577 times)
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inewham
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« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2011, 04:47 AM »

I find that most vented kites have a dead feel to them

Part of the problem is that when you snap a turn or pop an axel you're tugging against mesh rather than ripstop so theres less resistance, it makes things feel mushy.

Variable vents can work around this issue and my personal favourite, the Mantis V2, works particularly well. The vents in between the standoffs have a great effect without destroying the feel of the kite. It does pull though.

Personally I like a kite that still pulls but just slow it down to make it manageable and use as little venting as possible, that way you still maintain your window and keep your turns snappy.

I almost always use wah-pads in strong wind, even when I don't have too much venting open and find they don't really impair tricks. I don't know if Steve still sell the R-Sky equivelent and CR has shut up shop but theyre not difficult to make.

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RonG
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« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2011, 06:30 AM »

Variable vents can work around this issue and my personal favourite, the Mantis V2, works particularly well. The vents in between the standoffs have a great effect without destroying the feel of the kite. It does pull though.

My experience has been that vents in the standoff channel offer the best chance of reducing pull without radically altering the behavior of the kite.  Nose vents can also do a good job, but size and placement seem to matter more there.  Once you get beyond what channel vents can accomplish, it becomes a crapshoot.

I've never really understood why people vent the keels of their kites, since punching holes in the primary drag surface seems counterproductive for high wind flying.  Some folks swear by it though.
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obijuankenobe
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« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2011, 07:05 AM »

I found the vents on the XTS to really reduce FADE capabilities when open all the way.  The vents which face forward in the FADE are useless IMHO.

obi
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inewham
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« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2011, 07:32 AM »

I've never really understood why people vent the keels of their kites, since punching holes in the primary drag surface seems counterproductive for high wind flying.  Some folks swear by it though.


I don't swear by it but I have done it:
http://www.iannewham.com/kites/bluefish/vented_acara.html

I added the vents to the keel primarily to avoid changing the kites turn characteristics compared to a std, keeping roughly similar amounts of mesh on the inner/outer panels, and above/below the c.o.g to try to keep the flare the same.

Messing around trying different combinations, even just opening the keel vents does have an effect, which as you say is counter intuitive since its 'reducing' a draggy surface

The kite is too 'flat' to work well without additional fuzzy lines to help slow it down but it did cope with some ludicrous winds.

As an aside, another trick to help cope with high winds is keep the spine and spreaders stiff but don't make the LE too stiff so it can flex and let the TE billow. That kite was horrible with a wrapped LE and worked much better with .2400 pultrude LEs.
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Wayner
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« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2011, 10:10 AM »

I just bought a Mantis V2 on the swap meet from oyehut1955.  Grin

Quote from: inewham
Quote
I almost always use wah-pads in strong wind, even when I don't have too much venting open and find they don't really impair tricks. I don't know if Steve still sell the R-Sky equivelent and CR has shut up shop but theyre not difficult to make.

What are wah-pads?
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zippy8
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« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2011, 12:33 PM »

What are wah-pads?
Explanation here. They, some bits from Airdynamics collection of slow down stuff and something from Flying Wings offer lots of choices to me to slow a standard kite down. I don't have much call for a vented for the most part and generally choose to avoid flying in conditions where one might be needed.

Mike.
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« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2011, 02:12 PM »

 I do not fly a vent either anymore. i use brakes or wa-pads . i dont enjoy flying in anything over about 12 to 15 unless i am out of town and jonesing then i like to slow things down as much as possible.
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have fun kurt
Magpiesfooty
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« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2011, 07:49 PM »

Wow, Speed, Pull, wind? When did these go out of style?  Remember when you first took the line of a kite as a child, what do you remember?  It looked neat way up in the sky, It pulled back against you and it was probably one of the first times that you actually paid attention to the wind and sky.  One of the things that is so great about living in this part of the country is that you have WIND nearly every day and it is usually in the 10 - 15 MPH range.  This is minimum fun for me.  I like it to be up to about 20 but have kites in the bag that can go much higher. Yes, watching a kite tumble and flip is pretty cool, but if the winds don't allow for it, grab a monster and get you a workout. Not necessarily a power kite, but one that let's you know that it is at the other end of the line. Kiting is not a passive sport. But it IS a sport.   Enjoy!!

Magpiesfooty   
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tpatter
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« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2011, 08:49 PM »

You nailed it for me magpie!  I'd rather fly in 15 than 1.5, but I love both.  It's easier to lean the kite back a bit and put it on longer lines than it is to tack backwards.

-Tom
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6 kite tom
zippy8
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« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2011, 11:59 PM »

Wow, Speed, Pull, wind? When did these go out of style?
Around 5 years after the last of the kites in your .sig was made. In this day and age we're looking for us to make the kite do things, rather than the kite making us do things (like skid around the field on our arse). High winds are not conducive to this as the window of opportunity for "doing stuff" gets very narrow and the penalty for missing that window correspondingly larger.

Quote
Yes, watching a kite tumble and flip is pretty cool.....
But making a kite, as you term it, tumble and flip is cooler still.

Quote
Kiting is not a passive sport. But it IS a sport.
It's a hobby, a pastime even. And if you think that making those tumbles and flips requires passivity on the part of the flyer then you've been misinformed.

Mike.
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Magpiesfooty
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« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2011, 04:14 AM »

Zippy, I have great respect for you and your kite knowledge but you prove my points completely. You also didn't see all of the kites in the sig. I have a Sea Devil and a Prism Zephyr. I agree that there will always be those that like to make kites flip and turn and that is good, but what is kite flying without any real pulling and feedback from the kite, feeling a breeze in your hair, a kite that buzzes and sounds like a jet engine. It is like the Ballet  vs. The WWE  vs.  The UCF.   I really don't want either extreme so I'll take the WWE.  Maybe it is the weather here and all for the winds that we get.  Flying a kite in 5 MPH winds is absolutely no fun for me. Frustrating at best. Kudos to those that can and will put up with the frustrations of flying in light winds.  Most of you don't understand the fun of flying kites that are a fist full because they have never had the chance to do so.  Thankfully I can do that whenever I want.

Enjoy!!

Magpiesfooty.
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zippy8
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« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2011, 08:01 AM »

Zippy, I have great respect for you and your kite knowledge but you prove my points completely.
I'll add that to my list of achievements.  Shocked

Quote
You also didn't see all of the kites in the sig. I have a Sea Devil and a Prism Zephyr.
25+ kites and 2 that might make passable attempts at "tumble and flip". I don't think I overstretched my point.

Quote
what is kite flying without any real pulling and feedback from the kite, feeling a breeze in your hair, a kite that buzzes and sounds like a jet engine
Personally, more fun. And for a longer time too 'cos all that pullin' and noise is going to get real old, real fast.

Quote
It is like the Ballet  vs. The WWE  vs.  The UCF.   I really don't want either extreme so I'll take the WWE.
You do know that the WWE is just a soap opera for people who prefer large, sweaty men, right ?  Wink Not that I'm judging......

Quote
Flying a kite in 5 MPH winds is absolutely no fun for me. Frustrating at best. Kudos to those that can and will put up with the frustrations of flying in light winds.
I understand every word that you've written but have no comprehension of what you're saying Huh. Enough wind to power the kite without overpowering me or it is heaven to me. A decent modern UL will thrive in 5mph, give sufficient feedback down the lines and will be so much more entertaining to me than having to dig my heels in at every ground pass and sprint forward every time I dare to tumble or flip the kite.

Horses for courses, I suppose.

Mike.
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Allen Carter
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« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2011, 10:05 AM »

I just bought a Mantis V2 on the swap meet from oyehut1955.  Grin



Excellent score!

 Tongue
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Allen, AKA kitehead
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« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2011, 10:12 AM »

Flying a kite in 5 MPH winds is absolutely no fun for me. Frustrating at best. Kudos to those that can and will put up with the frustrations of flying in light winds. 

Yup, I don't get that.  Huh

5MPH is the sweet spot for most of the kites I fly and all of them but one are "old skool" or at least really old, and I'm more into flying than modern tricks, so I guess I'm old skool too.

A kite with 3PT sticks in 5MPH is just about the best case scenario.
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Allen, AKA kitehead
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« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2011, 01:10 PM »

Here is a kite with a very different venting system. The kite is a TORI TAKO kite (no name on it). Only a 6 footer that I bought 10+ years ago.

It has a layer of fabric behind the vent so part of the sail inflates. This slows down the quickness of the kite and is very effective comparied to my other 6 foot kites in high wind.

This is a great vented kite and VERY effective for precision kites, not sure about its use in modern trick kites. If I every build a stunk kite, I will try it as I like it that much. 

Anyone seen a venting system like this before? or know the name of the kite?



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