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Author Topic: Saber 2 ballet  (Read 1020 times)
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Ca Ike
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« on: September 21, 2011, 12:25 AM »

Had a fun session in a steady 5-7 mph winds yesterday. I Was in a feisty mood thanks to a fun customer I had and she even gave me the song to go along with it Tongue  THis off the top of my head ballet routine was the result.  Some of the leading edge landings into the cartwheels didn't come off as good as they can but thats the nature of the ground wind I usually get out at Mistlin park.  I still managed to pull off the relaunches and even got something resembling the old twisted sister tip wrap relaunch.   Enjoy, I had fun doing it.

Anthony

saber ballet
« Last Edit: September 21, 2011, 01:02 AM by Ca Ike » Logged
DWayne
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« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2011, 05:25 AM »

Looks like you and the Saber II are getting along well.
Thanks for sharing.  Wink

Denny
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Shane
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« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2011, 06:33 AM »

That's quite the song you used there... Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Wink Nice flyin though.

Shane
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Ca Ike
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« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2011, 04:21 PM »

Hehe i have a lot of off the wall songs like that Shane.  Comes from growing up listening to the old Dr. Dimento radio show.  ANyone else remember him?  http://www.drdemento.com/

THe Saber 2 is a fun kite but I did have to tweak  mine a bit to get it to fly more comfortably in the winds I usually get and some of the fields I fly on.  Made up a 27G brass barrel weight instead of the nuts (was getting some sail wear from the sharp edges of the nuts) so it flies a bit less heavy in the lower end and added some nose webbing to protect it from the hardpan on a few of my flying spots (raw dacron wears fast from the lightest grazing on hard packed soil)
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WinterDaze
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« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2011, 07:23 PM »

Hey Anthony,

If I may be so indulged and be allowed to give you a critique from what I saw.

(From someone who can just do duplexes)...

OK, that flying is quite loose, you have the basic inputs for quite a lot of tricks, a surprising amount for the time you've been flying freestyle, now you know my journey of learning and some of my views,  up to.. 1:20 is so-so, like if you hadn't done any 'warm-up', don't worry it gets better so 1:26 sideslide is pretty good, for the next bit.. lots of moves but TBH not many finished well, 2:31, some nice corners here for a bit, but then you go off squaring them. At 2:54 I'd have just paused to catch my breath here, you know, 'shake it out a bit'  Cool... @ 3:28 nice stall, 3:39, good BS's, good timing, 3:46 1/2 axel to fade and fic-flac was tidy. The finish was OK but the out was a little rough.

So there you go, one persons view...

Now... Here's what I'd suggest (again trying not to sound like I'm pissing in you're pocket), next time you're out build a run just based around cascades , 1/2 axels, and nice straight lines with no wobbles, just focus on that for as long as you can.
 I'm my opinion you're really close to nailing quite a lot more of what you're trying, and if you can tighten up some of those bits I think quite a bit of your flying will benefit.

But either way, Thanks for putting up a reasonably short unedited clip, it gives an honest view of were you're at and with that I hope you forgive me for not just typing the obligatory "Thanks for sharing"...

 Cool
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Ca Ike
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« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2011, 08:16 PM »

COnstructive criticism (with tips) is always welcome Shannon.  YOur right though I didn't warm up for that. IT was pure listen to the song once then go fly to it Tongue  MOSt of the sloppiness is due to the ever present bane of kite fliers "slack management".  YOu can se it plainly in the snap lazy at :40 where I almost rolled it up from too much slack.  I'm also not use to short lines.  FLying on 75' is a different feel from the 100'-120' I usually fly on.

A few things about the saber I'm still getting use to is the finicky turtle and how subtle changes in wind affect how the kite flies.  6mph is when this kite starts to show its true colors and is also the break point for two different personalities that it has.  in 3-5 its a lazy tricker (bit underpowered) and that shows up at ~1:33 in the flick flac.  YOu can see the dramatic change in lay over speed, the flic being nice n crisp but the wind lulled on the flac and you can see the kite slow down a lot as the nose comes around to the fade.  I'm also more used to kites with an old school tendency for flat rotational tricks  and with so much tail weight (doesn't like less than 25G ) combined with such a deep sail the saber likes to sit at a ~15 degrees nose high in a 540 or axel and barrel rolls in the backspin so my input timing on a lot of the exits still needs work.

TBH MOst of what you saw with the comete and cascade/comete/tip stab bounce happened by pure accident and It will be a while before I figure out what I did to get them and be able to repeat it, but the road is open now Smiley
« Last Edit: September 21, 2011, 08:19 PM by Ca Ike » Logged
WinterDaze
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« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2011, 09:12 PM »

COnstructive criticism (with tips) is always welcome Shannon.  YOur right though I didn't warm up for that. IT was pure listen to the song once then go fly to it Tongue  MOSt of the sloppiness is due to the ever present bane of kite fliers "slack management".  YOu can se it plainly in the snap lazy at :40 where I almost rolled it up from too much slack.  I'm also not use to short lines.  FLying on 75' is a different feel from the 100'-120' I usually fly on.


Why fly on 100+' lines? 75-80' is where you should be, leave the long lines in the bag and give your self a chance to see what the kite and bridle is doing.

Quote
A few things about the saber I'm still getting use to is the finicky turtle and how subtle changes in wind affect how the kite flies.  6mph is when this kite starts to show its true colors and is also the break point for two different personalities that it has.  in 3-5 its a lazy tricker (bit underpowered) and that shows up at ~1:33 in the flick flac.  YOu can see the dramatic change in lay over speed, the flic being nice n crisp but the wind lulled on the flac and you can see the kite slow down a lot as the nose comes around to the fade.  I'm also more used to kites with an old school tendency for flat rotational tricks  and with so much tail weight (doesn't like less than 25G ) combined with such a deep sail the saber likes to sit at a ~15 degrees nose high in a 540 or axel and barrel rolls in the backspin so my input timing on a lot of the exits still needs work.

So, the moral, if you want to progress your flying skill don't fly heaps of different kites... pick one and spend at least 6 months flying just it, changing kites all the time only [strong curse word] with your muscle memory. Now I'm only saying this to those who wish to 'progress', there's nothing wrong with the journey to finding that 'perfect kite' in fact I think it is a most noble one, BUT they are mutually exclusive, and thus can lead to madness... And if I was putting on my 'teacher hat' I'd be saying "ANthony, all I'm hearing here is excuses, I want to see a good looking job, not reasons for why it's not... UndecidedWink



Quote
TBH MOst of what you saw with the comete and cascade/comete/tip stab bounce happened by pure accident and It will be a while before I figure out what I did to get them and be able to repeat it, but the road is open now Smiley

Doing a random set of somethings, then in review seeing that they made 'a pretty shape' (which may or may not have a name) will not assist in progress IMO, but YMMV again it's just my view and to a degree TBH your learning curve seams to be the more popular of late  Roll Eyes

But again I reiterate, I'm saying this like I was your 'professional kite coach' and since I have no qualification in that(?) field, it need not be anymore than a jumble of letters on the page...
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WinterDaze AoF
Ca Ike
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« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2011, 12:56 AM »

COnstructive criticism (with tips) is always welcome Shannon.  YOur right though I didn't warm up for that. IT was pure listen to the song once then go fly to it Tongue  MOSt of the sloppiness is due to the ever present bane of kite fliers "slack management".  YOu can se it plainly in the snap lazy at :40 where I almost rolled it up from too much slack.  I'm also not use to short lines.  FLying on 75' is a different feel from the 100'-120' I usually fly on.


Why fly on 100+' lines? 75-80' is where you should be, leave the long lines in the bag and give your self a chance to see what the kite and bridle is doing.
 


100' and 120' (mostly 120')are common lengths used in comps for precision and ballet and those are the lengths I have flown on for years.  I've gotten to like 75' for trick practice though since its short enough to see whats happening at the kite but not so short that you need extra effort to get the slack in the lines in moderate winds and still leaves enough window for reaction to mistakes. Personally I can still see enough at the kite on 120' to know whats happening and make adjustments.

Quote
So, the moral, if you want to progress your flying skill don't fly heaps of different kites... pick one and spend at least 6 months flying just it, changing kites all the time only [strong curse word] with your muscle memory. Now I'm only saying this to those who wish to 'progress', there's nothing wrong with the journey to finding that 'perfect kite' in fact I think it is a most noble one, BUT they are mutually exclusive, and thus can lead to madness... And if I was putting on my 'teacher hat' I'd be saying "ANthony, all I'm hearing here is excuses, I want to see a good looking job, not reasons for why it's not... UndecidedWink


 Which is why for the last few months my saber is my go to kite unless I just don't have the wind to fly it.  It can be a fickle kite when it comes to wind and changing the tail weight or AOA really changes how it performs and what the inputs need to be.  It took a good month of flying and adjusting to it to find the best balance for the winds I get and what wind speeds it likes best.  I do have kites I can fly better but I like this kite and am determined to learn its ways.

Quote
Doing a random set of somethings, then in review seeing that they made 'a pretty shape' (which may or may not have a name) will not assist in progress IMO, but YMMV again it's just my view and to a degree TBH your learning curve seams to be the more popular of late 

But again I reiterate, I'm saying this like I was your 'professional kite coach' and since I have no qualification in that(?) field, it need not be anymore than a jumble of letters on the page...
Hmm for a long time this type of experimenting was the norm.  You go out and do a random sequence of things to see what happens then try to repeat that sequence for the same result.  Most, if not all of the tricks today would not be around if it wasn't for that type of approach.  Hell when I first started flying the axel hadn't even been known yet, the stall was the common trick and the snap stall was just going around the kite circles.  This approach is how I learned to change the angle and speed of a leading edge landing just enough to get the kite to bounce, fly a short bit sideways nose down and flare out for a kick turn to change direction (sequence at ~:48).  Only this time I did it with a cascade-single comet lead in.  THe kite flowed in that direction so I just went with it. Hence the sequence came together by accident or improv'd if you prefer. 

Your a great flyer IMO Shannon and you can put on your "teacher hat" for me anytime Smiley I'll use your suggestions for working on a routine thats not so "off the cuff" that I can repeat reliably.  Now if I can just nail that duplex  your so good at Tongue
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obijuankenobe
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« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2011, 02:24 AM »

Long lines make your slack reach the kite more slowly, thus demanding more and better timing.  Also the ramp from slack to tight (or tight to slack) is less steep, so the feedback is actually less precise as well.  Heavy leaders can help with long lines by pulling the slack preferentially to the kite end of the lines during slack moments. 

That being said, it takes long set of lines next to a short set of lines to feel this difference as any more than subtle.

Short lines are great for small spaces and hitting tricks consistently.  However, short lines reduce the size of the window.  This means less space for controlled flying and long lines.  I guess this is why short line fliers don't bother much with precision flying?

obi 
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"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." L daVinci
Ca Ike
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« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2011, 03:05 AM »

Long lines make your slack reach the kite more slowly, thus demanding more and better timing.  Also the ramp from slack to tight (or tight to slack) is less steep, so the feedback is actually less precise as well.  Heavy leaders can help with long lines by pulling the slack preferentially to the kite end of the lines during slack moments. 

That being said, it takes long set of lines next to a short set of lines to feel this difference as any more than subtle.

Short lines are great for small spaces and hitting tricks consistently.  However, short lines reduce the size of the window.  This means less space for controlled flying and long lines.  I guess this is why short line fliers don't bother much with precision flying?

obi 
  Hmm interesting point Obi but I think the quality of the line makes a difference as well.  I really don't notice a difference between my 75' set and my 120' set other than window size and a slight loss in the low end with my  Skybond line sets or my LPG sets but I can see that happening more if you go over 120'.  Of course I'm so used to flying on 100-120 lengths the adjustment is probably 2nd nature by now.  HAving less time to react and recover when things go awry(on a std kite)is all I've really had to get used to on short lines.  Short lines on an SUL is a different story.  Personally I find it easier to get slack to the kite on longer lines.  Seems to me the added drag(weight?) makes the line drop faster.  I notice more of a difference between using leaders and no leaders than I do with line length.
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