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Author Topic: P2 Build Thread  (Read 17723 times)
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AKA_MrBill
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« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2011, 08:56 AM »

I haven't built any duals yet but may look to try in the new year. This thread has been an interesting read and resource for future.
The question I have is, would using a pocket at the spine have dire results during a nose plant? would there be any issues tensioning the sail? I would think the velcro would not require as much percision on placement.
One of the nice features of the P2, even more so for a first build, is that most of the seams are straight! The TE and LE are the only exceptions.

If you plan on using Velcro for the tail strap attachment, a 2 inch strip is more than sufficient to hold in a moderate nose plant. If it comes undone, you'll probably have bigger issues to deal with, like busted spars.  Cry
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sugarbaker
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« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2012, 07:33 PM »

ok.  new post time.  new picture time. 

The next few posts will be specific for the yellow and orange kite.  I'll probably finish this version before I make any more progress on the white, grey and blue kite.

The last post that I really covered any of the build left off with the sail completely sewn up and the marks made on the sail for where fittings will be oriented at the end of the build.  Next step is to put on the trailing edge.  For the yellow and orange kite, the trailing edge is a simple 1" width strip of ripstop nylon (black) that is folded along the length.  Measure out two strips that equal the length of 1 half of the kites trailing edge.  Give approx 5" of extra length so you can trim some off of the tail and wing tip for a neat finish.  See the B'zar 2011 build thread for more detail.  Also note in the B'zar thread that you need to thread a leech line through the trailing edge after you sew on the nylon.  To complete the trailing edge (at this time), sew the leech line into the ends of the wing tip.  This picture shoes the stitching... zig-zag for the trailing edge tape and 3 step zig-zag to sew in the line (note that the leech line is sewn in by going from wingtip to tail approx 1" and in reverse back to the wingtip).  Also note that the extra length of trailing edge ripstop has been trimmed neatly by this time.  It should also be trimmed at the tail of the kite and can be seen in upcoming pictures:



The trailing edge for the blue and white kite will differ significantly and will be covered in greater detail later on.

After the trailing edge and leech line are placed, cut some re-enforcing strips out of dacron.  This picture shows all of the pieces for both kites.  For the orange and blue kite, cut two 2" squares that will be the re-enforcements around the center T, and cut two 12" strips of 1" dacron that will be the re-enforcements on the trailing edge (will cover both standoffs and the roll bar connector). 



Next I'll show some brief pictures of the tail velcro strap and tunnel.  Most of this is covered in the B'zar thread.  The biggest differences are that on the P2 I'm using 1.5" velcro and strap and for this kite I've put the spine tunnel on the inside with the strap attached to the outside.  Allow yourself some creative license here and build it to be functional and look the way you want.  It's not critical to have more than about 1-2" of velcro for a spine tunnel.   

Here you can see that I use tape to hold the velcro portion down as I sew... this portion will be the spine tunnel and sewn to the sail.  I do this first before I sew on the strap so that the thread will be hidden on the front side of the kite.



Next, I've pre measured the strap, but I attach it to the velcro prior to sewing to make sure it is long enough.  I place a false spine in the tunnel with APA fitting on it and wrap the strap around to ensure a good fit.


Since I know it will fit, I put some double sided tape on the strap and stick it to the sail.  For best placement, I use a light table and place the strap just high enough so it will cover the velcro tunnel from the front of the kite.




« Last Edit: January 03, 2012, 12:30 AM by sugarbaker » Logged
sugarbaker
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« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2012, 03:34 PM »

time to build the leading edges.  I maintain that preparation is the key to quality leading edges.  The number one thing that has ruined a kite build for me is when I don't take time to prep the leading edge appropriately.  I start by cutting two strips of dacron (2" wide) long enough that they will span the leading edge = approx 7cm that will be folded back to re-enforce the wingtip.  I then fold the strip lengthwise down it's middle.  Take your time doing this.  An uneven fold can result in poor results when sewing such as the thread being in place on the front of the kite, but traveling off the dacron fabric in the back of the kite. 



Next, I fold the portion that is extra back on the wing tip. A small portion must be trimmed from the sides of the folded back portion so that it doesn't stick out when sewn on the kite:



Then actually tape the dacron to the plan following the line of the leading edge.  The point of doing this is to mark where the fittings (and in turn the leading edge openings) will be placed.  After you do this with one leading edge (one half of the kite to be precise), additional leading edges can be measured using the first as a template. 




Be sure you use enough tape to keep the leading edge aligned with the plan.  it will make the fabric buckle a little toward the nose where it curves more.

once marked, remove the fabric and mark the second side in the same place.  remember to make them mirror images of one another.  I then use a washer as a guide to cut the holes for the leading edge.  details and pictures of this can be found in the B'zar build thread.  Other builders will cut out an an entire slot for the leading edge fittings... others use simple slits where I would use round holes.  Any of these styles are fine, but I find that some wear out faster than others.  I've liked the method I show here in terms of simplicity, fit and finish and so far for durability.



After the holes have been cut, I place seem tap on the halves of the inside of the leading edge.  On the back side of the leading edge I place the tape close to the fold.  This will be where I initially tape the sail into the leading edge.  For the front half, I place tape right at the edge.  This will help align the front and back of the folded material prior to sewing (and hold it in place).



I'm afraid I forgot to show the sail being attached to the leading edges.  The idea is the same in the B'zar thread.  The difference here is the tape on the front side of the leading edge.  I use a light table to align the front and back when taping it down.  I'll be sure to photograph that step in the second version of the P2 that will come after completing this version.



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sugarbaker
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« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2012, 03:45 PM »

Once again, I've failed to show some steps with photos.  I blame my eagerness to finish the kite.  For the nose, I've used a material that I found at a local fabric shop... it's basically a thick dacron/cordura that has a glossy side and a flat side.  I'm leaving the glossy side facing out to hopefully shed some of the mud/dirt that will inevitably find it's way onto this portion of the kite.  It's thicker than regular dacron, but easier to fold and sew through than seatbelt material.  I use a 2 inch wide strip that is long enough to stick out past the leading edge when oriented on the kite (folded over the nose).  Before trimming the nose material, I stitch the area around the nose... closing the spine pocket 2 cm below the end of the nose as dictated on the P2 website.  I also stitch seems parallel to the spine that will act as stops for the leading edge spars.  By stitching this portion in place, it holds the nose where it belongs.  Then I trim the profile of the nose using the original template used to cut the sail panels (using a hot cutter). 



I orient the template slightly forward of where the actual sail sits... I don't want to cut the leading edge dacron as it will be holding the leading edge spars in place.  Try to cut it as close to the dacron as possible to avoid catching your lines on the nose material when wrapping the kite up. Once cut, I use a straight stitch that older the edge of the nose together. Practice this with scrap material to perfect the edge seem... coming off of the edge while sewing will look sloppy and leave you with exposed thread and open parts of the seam.



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sugarbaker
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« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2012, 03:55 PM »

the sail is almost finished at this point.  Adding some re-enforcing patches is critical to the longevity of the kite.  Orient and glue on the two 2" squares cut out earlier at the center T mark on the kite.  I use a small zigzag stitch around the outside of the patches (one on front and one in back... make sure they are lined up exactly or the stitch will look uneven on one side of the kite).  There are a number of ways to get an even stitch spacing around the patch.  I've tried edge stitching feet designed for my sewing machine.  I've found the best way is to just eyeball the stitch and go slow (practice/experience helps a lot).  The secret to getting good corners is to not be afraid to adjust the stitch length as you approach the corner.  If possible, have your machine stop in the needle-down position.  Lift the foot and make the turn, then place the foot back down and sew on (don't forget to return the stitch length to the original so it looks right).  Remember that the needle orientation (left or right) will affect where the fabric sits after you rotate the sail when making corners. 



After sewing on the panel, I use a washer of the desired diameter and cut out the hole for the center T.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-DxnwyKgZ0iU/TxCwYH2bYnI/AAAAAAAAA6c/hzZv15A_Mbw/s1152/DSC_2063.jpg

You can see in this picture of the completed center T portion that I also use a zigzag stitch around the hole.  To do this, I also just use a regular foot on the machine and eyeball the spacing.  The key to going around a circle is to actually stitch straight portions but lift the foot and pivot the fabric every half centimeter or so.  If you try to actually stitch in a circle this tight you risk a visually lousy seem and/or a bent needle. 

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sugarbaker
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« Reply #35 on: January 13, 2012, 03:58 PM »

after the Center T is complete, use the 12" long dacron strips cut for the trailing edge to re-enforce the sail standoff connections.  The dacron should be folded lengthwise and placed so that it extends approx 1" past the roll bar connector mark on the outside and 1" past the inner standoff mark at the trailing edge.  I tape the fabric in place and then sew it on with a straight stitch.



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sugarbaker
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« Reply #36 on: January 13, 2012, 06:07 PM »

I've made a simple change in my framing compared to the original list of parts... I've decided to use 5mm carbon and TAPA leading edge connectors for the upper spreader.  My hope is that by using the smaller upper spreader, I may be able to reduce the recommended tail weight. 



The leading edge are .230 thin walled pultruded spars (one piece). Lower spreader connectors are regular APA.  Lower spreaders are Skyshark 5pt... the regular 5pt spars are ridged, so I've used 180grit and 240 grit sand paper to remove the ridges (will remove some material, weakening the spar so beware) to prevent wear on the bridle leaders. I sand them smooth, so you can still see some of the original finish on the spars.



the other thing to note in the previous picture of the lower spreader is that for the bridle, instead of using a knotted leader on the lower leading edge bridle connection, I've used a smooth line and a locking prusik knot.  (stole this idea from my silverfox pro).  This is super simple to adjust and saves having to tie 5 evenly spaced knots on the lead.  I still use knots on the upper leading edge lead.

The bridle is constructed like I show in the B'zar build.  Difference is that the P2 is using a 3point bridle (no turbo).  I also decided to not use any adjustment leads at the center T.  So, the upper and lower outer bridle legs are one piece with the inner leg connection point marked where it belongs.  I then connect the long line leads to the uphaul/outhaul line at the mark using a locking prusik knot.  Finally the in-haul (inner leg) attaches directly to the spine, and then using a larks head knot, fit it so it slides up the line leaders and butts against the outhaul legs (see picture, representing the right side bridle):



Here is a close up of the roll bars.  I attach APA standoff connectors to the leading edge in the same way the B'zar 2011 thread shows the yo-yo stoppers attached.  I bias the connector toward the back of the kite.  The fiberglass roll bars connect to the lower leading edge in the same way as the standoffs only facing toward the back.  Then, bend them and place the open end of the roll bar in the APA connector on the leading edge.  Should fit tight.



and finally a close up of the nose. notice how clean the transition is from leading edge to nose.  I'll cover some aspects in more detail on the blue, white and grey build such as the nose detail, spine pockets, trailing edge and sewing on the leading edge. 



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sugarbaker
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« Reply #37 on: January 13, 2012, 06:10 PM »

Here is the finished version of the first, simpler build of the P2. Shown in first picture with custom sleeve (documentation in separate kite sleeve build thread)



back side:
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Krijn
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« Reply #38 on: January 14, 2012, 12:11 AM »

thanks! nice to read along with you  Smiley

i'll try to remember some LE-details in my next build, thanks for that

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Kareloh
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« Reply #39 on: January 14, 2012, 11:56 AM »

Very cool looking P2!
I guess it's a comination of the angle in the pic, the lack of an upperspreader and the panel/colors but the aspect ratio in this one looks a bit different.

Did you fly it?
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sugarbaker
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« Reply #40 on: January 14, 2012, 12:34 PM »

I have not flown it yet.  Weather here in Reno has not been windy as of late... I also want to finish the icarex build so that I can compare them during the first flights without the bias of having flown one longer than the other. 

The other reason for not flying is that the yellow and orange one pictured is for my wife... I want her to be able to fly it with me.

As far as the aspect ratio, I think you're probably right that it appears that way due to the lack of the upper spreader and the angle in which the picture was taken.  I'll try for another picture later today.
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sugarbaker
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« Reply #41 on: January 20, 2012, 03:24 PM »

Here is another picture of my first completed P2.  Perhaps this angle and the upper spreader help it look like the proper aspect ratio.

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Kareloh
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« Reply #42 on: January 20, 2012, 04:07 PM »

Yes, definately!

That thing will really pop out against a clear blue sky! And a cloudy sky as well...
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sugarbaker
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« Reply #43 on: February 09, 2012, 01:17 PM »

more really is coming.  I've sewn the trailing edge, including the somewhat experimental spine pocket.  I've threaded the leech line.  Building has been slow due to a multitude of projects I'm currently working on, but like I said; more is coming!
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sugarbaker
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« Reply #44 on: February 24, 2012, 05:09 PM »

Ok.  So, The last entries of this thread will really only be documenting differences of the yellow and orange "budget" version of this kite and the icarex/skyshark blue and white version.  Both kites are finished.  Some of the things I tried here are new to me.  Some mistakes happened (one big problem that is just a risk of the project will be shown in a post coming up... not a big deal, but worth showing).  I may or may not repeat some of these techniques in the future.  Here is the biggest unique aspect of this kite:

No velcro.

The idea is that a tail pocket is created.  The spine is inserted by bending the spar enough that it will slide into the pocket.  To start, I build a patch that will be stitched to the front of the kite that has a strap that folds around to the the back. Do make note that the trailing edge has not been sewn on at this point.



note that the spine re-enforcement strip was purposely left long to act as a doubled up strap. This strip of mylar is folded to the back of the kite with the dacron strap.  and since the mylar strip was longer than the strap, I folded it back over a second time.



now, before sewing the strap to the kite, the horizontal stitches need to be made first to secure the mylar strip to the dacron strap.  if you do this after sewing the strap in place to form the pocket, you'll end up sewing the pocket shut.  This is the pocket with it's final stitching. 



Here is a side view of the pocket and the strap.  The strap is delicate, so should not be pulled downward, as it will pull the stitches out.  To place the spine in the pocket, I'll post a video some where down the line.  there really should be any tension put on the sail to place the spine... the video will be the best way to show (may take me a while, my wife makes fun of me when I make instructional video, so I'll wait till she isn't home Smiley )










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