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Author Topic: Vortex, my first kite build!  (Read 18859 times)
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AKA_MrBill
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« Reply #45 on: November 11, 2011, 07:21 AM »


I suspect you've figured this out for yourself, but I'll write this out anyway: When doing a zigzag around a curve, it helps if you stop in a needle-down position then lift the foot and turn the fabric just a tetch. Lower the foot then continue a stitch or two, stop again with the needle down, lift foot, turn fabric yada yada yada until you make it around the curve. The more you stop the smaller your fabric turns need to be. I like to stop with the needle down on the outside of the curve.

If your machine doesn't have the feature where your needle automatically lands in the needle-down position and you are having trouble going slow enough to control where your needle stops, you can hand-crank the wheel while working your way around the curve.......

Mr.B, I like the penny bags-- the weight of them would be great. Another choice might be rice-- the weight is pretty good and after a long day bending over a sewing machine, you can pop your rice bag into the microwave, heat it up, then use it to sooth your sore muscles. lol

Nancy


Nancy,
This is exactly how I did the second strip. In fact, I hand cranked both corners.  Wink That is why it came out so much better.

Right now I just can't see shelling out a bunch of money for a sewing machine that is smart enough to stop with the needle down, although, I would LOVE to have one that did! I have seen many times when it would have been a HUGE advantage.

I'll keep my eyes open, you never know when someone will want to get rid of, or need the cash for, a really nice machine at a bargain price.
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Svolazzo
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« Reply #46 on: November 11, 2011, 01:46 PM »

These are two of my scratchbuild weigths I'm using to hold in place the sail parts. I made 9 of them filling some round boxes with a lot of small lead square cut from a full sheet. I'm a dentist, so those boxes are the packaging of some micro tips I'm using in my office. Filled with lead they have the right weight to make just fine the job, they are clean and easy to work with.
BTW note that they come from Utah, USA  Smiley

Paolo

« Last Edit: November 12, 2011, 04:08 PM by Svolazzo » Logged
madhabitz
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« Reply #47 on: November 11, 2011, 04:19 PM »


Nancy,
This is exactly how I did the second strip. In fact, I hand cranked both corners.  Wink That is why it came out so much better.

Right now I just can't see shelling out a bunch of money for a sewing machine that is smart enough to stop with the needle down, although, I would LOVE to have one that did! I have seen many times when it would have been a HUGE advantage.

I'll keep my eyes open, you never know when someone will want to get rid of, or need the cash for, a really nice machine at a bargain price.

Yup, I figured this was the case-- you've been exceedingly clever about the whole project right from the beginning. It's clear you did your homework and that your training/experience as an engineer held you in good stead.

As for forking over money for an expensive machine, I agree with you-- if this machine works for what you are doing now... and it obviously is, then no sweat. If it turns out that you want to keep making kites, you'll be more inclined to buy the machine down the road. Hand cranking is a time-tested and honorable way of doing things in the meantime.

These are two of my scratchbuild weigths I'm using to hold in place the sail parts. I made 9 of them filling some round boxes with a lot of small lead square cut from a full sheet. I'm a dentist, so those boxes are the packaging of some micro tips I' using in my office. Filled with lead they have the right weight to make just fine the job, they are clean and easy to work with.
BTW note that they come from Utah, USA  Smiley

Paolo, what a great idea! I love how new-to-me ideas are found with a bit of brainstorming. Thanks!

Nancy
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mdilucca
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« Reply #48 on: November 11, 2011, 07:56 PM »

Can anybody mention the recommended spine length for the Vortex?

Thank you!
Cheers
Mario 
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Cheers
Mario

mikenchico
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« Reply #49 on: November 11, 2011, 08:10 PM »

These are two of my scratchbuild weigths I'm using to hold in place the sail parts. I made 9 of them filling some round boxes with a lot of small lead square cut from a full sheet. I'm a dentist, so those boxes are the packaging of some micro tips I' using in my office. Filled with lead they have the right weight to make just fine the job, they are clean and easy to work with.
BTW note that they come from Utah, USA  Smiley

Paolo, what a great idea! I love how new-to-me ideas are found with a bit of brainstorming. Thanks!

Nancy


Gluing a piece of felt on the bottom of those would make them a little more slip proof and ... I dunno ... I just feel better about setting something soft on my fabric rather then something with a hard surface, I know I'm odd, after all my work table is hard and I don't mind setting the fabric on it  Undecided

« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 08:12 PM by mikenchico » Logged

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AKA_MrBill
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« Reply #50 on: November 11, 2011, 09:53 PM »

Can anybody mention the recommended spine length for the Vortex?

Thank you!
Cheers
Mario 

At the end of page 1 and the top of page 2, that question was discussed on this thread http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=1742.0. It should be somewhere between 80.5 and 82.5 cm depending on how you make your spine weight and nose pocket.
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AKA_MrBill
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« Reply #51 on: November 11, 2011, 10:20 PM »

Here is my post on today's progress. Sorry, there won't be any work done on it tomorrow as I will be out of town with my robotics team at a competition in Madera.

I got three steps completed today: Stand-off re-enforcement's, Center-T re-enforcement and TE.

I cut the stand off Re-enforcement pieces from the 2" Mylar backed Dacron. Each triangle was 1.5" wide by 2" tall. I also added a e-enforcement for the optional roll bar. On the two patches for the stand offs, I glued two triangles together to give even more support to the sail. The roll bar patches were left as single layers. Once the glue was set, I glued them in position adn taped them in place on the sail to let the glue dry.



While the glue was drying for the TE patches, I mad a center-T re-enforcement patch. I created a diamond shaped patch that matches the angles of the stand off patches. To do this I had to call on a little math. I wanted the width to height ratio to be identicle to the stand off patches. I also wanted to use the full 2" width of the Mylar backed Dacron. So, here we go: The original patches had a ratio of 2 to 1.5, or 2/1.5. The ratio of the diamond has a width of 2", but I needed to know what height would be. So the math looks like this: 2/1.5=X/2, 4/1.5=X, X = 2.67. So, the height of each half of the diamond (two triangles back to back) was 2.67" with a width of 2".
I marked these dimensions out and cut a nice Diamond.

Now that the glue for the patches had dried enough, I glued the Diamond in place and proceeded to stitch the triangles in place. Note that the TE of the triangles is not sewn in. That will be done by sewing on the TE RSN.


Now the fun began. I took my 1" RSN and hot cut it down to .75". For details of the process, please refer to Sugarbaker's B'zar 2011 build thread. I sewed the RSN to the TE starting at the tail and working my way to the wing tip. Let's just say the second side turned out better the the first.  Angry . I also sewed on the center-t patch. As a whole, it turned out fairly good.




I also noticed as I looked at the pictures, I forgot to sew a seam. That has been corrected now.


Here is your eye candy for this day.

Lake Aloha in the Desolation Wilderness.
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kiteguy
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« Reply #52 on: November 12, 2011, 02:00 PM »

Weights.  I use what is on hand.  Liquid soap containers.  Plastic Dawn container.  Peanut butter jar filled with Peanut butter.  Canned goods: Peas, beans, etc.  Soda bottles.  (Mountain Dew or Dr Pepper is best!) etc.   Kiss
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madhabitz
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« Reply #53 on: November 12, 2011, 10:45 PM »

Gluing a piece of felt on the bottom of those would make them a little more slip proof and ... I dunno ... I just feel better about setting something soft on my fabric rather then something with a hard surface, I know I'm odd, after all my work table is hard and I don't mind setting the fabric on it  Undecided

Not so odd. Tactile type, maybe. ;-)

Weights.  I use what is on hand.  Liquid soap containers.  Plastic Dawn container.  Peanut butter jar filled with Peanut butter.  Canned goods: Peas, beans, etc.  Soda bottles.  (Mountain Dew or Dr Pepper is best!) etc.   Kiss

lol
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« Reply #54 on: November 13, 2011, 06:16 AM »

Nice work MrBill !

To address what Fidelio said, yes Dacron and curves are mortal enemies, but not as much as you might think. TE curves aren't that sharp and Dacron tends to curve naturally once it has been folded in half.

I use bits of tape to hold the Dacron in place with the curve. Practice has meant that I only need four strips on each side now, but using more shorter pieces of tape would act like little 'spot-welds', keeping your Daccy in place and nicely curved ready for stitching.

I had no luck trying to find a clip from the last kite I made, shame. Maybe I should add a highlight to the JTV page that is more permanent.

Mark
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« Reply #55 on: November 13, 2011, 08:11 AM »

Nice work MrBill !

To address what Fidelio said, yes Dacron and curves are mortal enemies, but not as much as you might think. TE curves aren't that sharp and Dacron tends to curve naturally once it has been folded in half.

I use bits of tape to hold the Dacron in place with the curve. Practice has meant that I only need four strips on each side now, but using more shorter pieces of tape would act like little 'spot-welds', keeping your Daccy in place and nicely curved ready for stitching.

I had no luck trying to find a clip from the last kite I made, shame. Maybe I should add a highlight to the JTV page that is more permanent.

Mark

Mark,
This is excellent to know. I will certainly find a use for the 1" Dacron I now have, probably on my next build. I also own 50 yards of 1" wide .75oz  slit RSN. So either way, I now have material to cover a TE.

As it was, I did find that trying to hold the loose, folded RSN TE  to the sail and sew it without interfering with the feed of the sewing machine was quite tricky. I did get better at it with time, but there are a few spots on the first side that are not so pretty. If I had used seam tape the whole process would have been a LOT easier! But seam tape has it's problems too. Besides, .25" seam tape on a .375" hem/TE leaves VERY LITTLE room for the Leach line to be passed through. One little wobble and you have a real mess on your hands!
Glues, like "Fabri-Tac" might be the answer for this situation. Care would need to be used in applying it for the same reason as the tape, but it should leave you with more room for error. Although, you still need to wait for it to dry, and waiting sucks!!  Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: November 13, 2011, 04:48 PM by AKA_MrBill » Logged
madhabitz
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« Reply #56 on: November 13, 2011, 09:55 PM »

As it was, I did find that trying to hold the loose, folded RSN TE  to the sail and sew it without interfering with the feed of the sewing machine was quite tricky. I did get better at it with time, but there are a few spots on the first side that are not so pretty. If I had used seam tape the whole process would have been a LOT easier! But seam tape has it's problems too. Besides, .25" seam tape on a .375" hem/TE leaves VERY LITTLE room for the Leach line to be passed through. One little wobble and you have a real mess on your hands!
Glues, like "Fabri-Tac" might be the answer for this situation. Care would need to be used in applying it for the same reason as the tape, but it should leave you with more room for error. Although, you still need to wait for it to dry, and waiting sucks!!  Roll Eyes

I think Mark was talking about temporarily tacking the dacron down so you can concentrate on sewing it without it moving around on you. If you were using regular fabric to make clothes or quilts or something, you'd be using straight pins or even running a long basting stitch. You'd be able to do this by hand or by machine (depending on the fabrics). If by machine, you'd want to try setting the stitch length for something like no more than three-to-four stitches per inch.

Not sure you can baste the ripstop or the dacron (a lot of extra little pinholes), so using bits of tape (like your blue painter's tape-- little bits torn off ) to hold things together makes a ton of sense. You've already done this kind of thing in other sections of your project, using Post-Its. The glue isn't going to do what you need-- it'll just spread out and will probably leave you less of a channel than the seam tape would. That stuff isn't all that tacky, either. It's a great glue, just not what you need.

Mark mentioned that he's been doing this long enough that he only needs four pieces of tape to hold things in place enough to get the job done. Until you get that good, place bits of tape every half inch if you need to. Just remove them (front and back) as you go.

I hope I've understood the problem here and that my explanation helps.

Nancy
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« Reply #57 on: November 14, 2011, 12:51 AM »

Just to be clear, I'm talking about double-sided sticky tape  Smiley
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« Reply #58 on: November 14, 2011, 01:41 AM »

Just to be clear, I'm talking about double-sided sticky tape  Smiley

lol.... oops.

Well then, carry on. ;-)

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« Reply #59 on: November 14, 2011, 08:08 AM »

My Sundays are always very busy, so if I get any spare time to work on the kite, or attend a Fun Fly, it is rare and short!

Yesterday I had one of those rare times, all of 45 minutes. So, I started the lay out of the LE's.

One thing to note about the Vortex plans, they are large enough that the will not entirely fit onto an A0 sized print. Christian Derefat has accounted for this by having the plans include the wingtip and tail sections adjacent to the main sail. Fortunately the plans are also available to print on A4 and US Letter size paper. So I printed the additional pages that had the wing tip and tail on them. I taped them together, cut out the tip and tail and then added them to my A0 print. Now I have the entire sail one one sheet. But, I still have a minor problem, my work surface can't quite hold the entire print without some portion being off one end. My solution for this while making the LE was to position the print with enough room after the end of the wing tip to allow an additional 1.5" of LE.  The extra 1.5" is to allow the wing tip section of the LE to be doubled for extra strength.


Once the plan was positioned, I marked my table and taped the first couple of feet of the 2" wide Dacron I am using for the LE to the plan, with the end of the Dacron aligned with the mark I had made on the table.
Here ia a picture of what the wing tip + 1.5" looks like.


At this point I finished taping the LE the plan. Once fully taped, I marked the location of the US, LS and the Yo-Yo bar.

At the beginning of this thread I said I would be using my BMK Exile as an inspiration for design and building this Vortex. So, I pulled the Exile out and took a look at how Ken had built the LE.
On the US position, he opened the LE for approx. 2.5". The opening is 3/4" deep and starts 1/8" from the edge of the Dacron. The flap this creates if left on the LE and is stitched down, adding to the strength of the sail in this region. By making the cutout only 3/4" deep, this allows the LE to wrap around the APA connector and prevent snags from occurring in flight. The same process is followed for the LS cutout except the length of the cutout is approx 5" with the APA centered 1.25" from the upper edge. This allows the LE spars to be separated for storage if desired. Here are pictures of these to cutouts respectively.



One I was armed with this information, I marked up the fully taped down Dacron on my plans. I then removed the Dacron and slid the plans aside. I then rolled the second strip of LE Dacron right next to the original. I taped the two together and cut the second to match the first. Finally I transferd all the marks to the second strip. I now have two LE strips with identical markings but mirrors of each other.


Today's goal? Cut and sew these to strips to the sail. Once completed, I should be able to get the nose section completed and maybe even sew on the tail strap.

Here is some Eye Candy to start your day. This one is a bit different than the others. It really caught my eye, so I grabbed it. See if you can identify where it is.
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