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Author Topic: SLK Question - Falling kite - Astral Glide  (Read 2458 times)
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asburyparkjohn
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« on: September 04, 2011, 03:16 PM »

Not to pick on anyone but been flying the Ron Gibian Astral Glide with a hollow tail about 10 feet long for more stability. In an up/down wind around 10 mph the kite crashed twice to the left. Veered left hard and went down after being up for a half hour. Too much wind? Both tensions were measured from tension line to kite surface as 8" (top) and 4" (bottom) as instructed in the directions. For this kite in a up and down strong winds (10-15 mph) how should the kite be set at the top and bottom and how would you fly this great kite. Need some help. Was using 75# line. Was flying no more than 75 feet high. No real obstructions on an up/down beach wind but the wind was fluctuating. On a hard gust it veered left hard. I guess my question is for those who have flown this kite awhile is what adjustments and measurements (if any) do you do in low winds, high winds and/or variable winds with the tension rods at top and bottom and if you fly with any tail add-on with this kite??? Do not get me wrong here I still have not flown this kite in low to medium STEADY winds. Great kite here!
« Last Edit: September 04, 2011, 03:38 PM by asburyparkjohn » Logged

In my kite inventory of Dual Line Kites: Benson - Inner Space, Signature Kite of Top Pilots on an Old Style Gemini ; L'Atelier xt.z. ; Fearless-Tatto (SSUL), Fearless - SUL, Light & Light-Vent , Transformer TL's: (SUL & Light), Transformer 2 SUL & UL.
Wayner
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« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2011, 04:20 PM »

I have never fly this kite. But I have 2 noodle type kites and several roks.

Veering hard in either direction is usally the sign of a gust over powering the kite. Did you have a gust and it was overpowered?

Where I live the wind conditions cause this frequently with some kites. First is a gust followed by a sharp cross breeze. While the kite reacts to the gust a cross breeze lifts the tail and rotates it enought to causing the kite to dive to the gound. The kites that  suffer from this can fly find on many trips out of the bag only to suffur 3 crashes in a hour in these wind conditions.

Here are some basic places to start. 
 * Add more bow to the top and bottom rods. Maybe 9" and 5" top and bottom
 * Move the tow point up
 * Adding a longer line (3 feet) to your tube tail can act as a counter balance. Only trial and error can find the right lenght for kite and tail combo.

« Last Edit: September 04, 2011, 04:24 PM by Wayner » Logged
KaoS
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« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2011, 05:36 PM »

Sometimes, adding a tail to a kite can make it less responsive to gusts.  The kite can get blown away from its current position (say, to the left) and the drag of the tail encourages it to continue in that direction for much longer than it needs to.

The ultimate demonstration of this effect is to have someone hold onto the end of a kite's tail as you launch the kite.  It will almost always crash to one side of the wind unless the person lets go.

For a small kite like the Astral Glide you will be better off having a long, but very light tail rather than a tube tail.  Try a length of ribbon tape (surveyor's tape from the hardware shop).  The ribbon is flexible and responsive enough allow the kite to self correct quickly, yet still provide drag when needed.  A tube tail is fairly rigid once it has air in it, and is less responsive.  When a ribbon is blown sideways in the wind, only the ribbon is being moved.  When a tube tail is being blown sideways in the wind, the entire weight of the air inside the tube is moving too.

Hope this helps
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Kevin Sanders

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asburyparkjohn
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« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2011, 07:14 PM »

Wayner - Thanks. Obviously although I mostly focus on duals I do really enjoy flying SL specialty kites and there are a lot of little things to perfect for each type of kite. As an example, when I was taught how to fly Norman Girard's Funky Alien he did instruct me to bow the kite MORE in higher winds and less bow for lower winds for the main body of this kite design. More surface area (less bow) - obviously to catch the lower winds and vice versa for higher winds (more bow). Same thing here ... I will also try the higher tow point. Makes sense ...
Kaos - Thanks. I will try a tail as you described. In my kite collection I have a Longbottom kite the Mini Mad Hatta. This a has a very long ribbon tail which keeps this  sensitive designed kite very stable - I also experimented with a Brasington Bird Kite which normally is made to fly in a train but did finally stabilize this very erratic solo kite with this same type of tail (long ribbon tail) by actually adding 3 feet to each beach fly until I was satified on its stability in the air ... I guess with my limited expereince I thought more was better in terms of using a tube tail. What you say makes very good sense. I will experiment with a long ribbon tail.
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In my kite inventory of Dual Line Kites: Benson - Inner Space, Signature Kite of Top Pilots on an Old Style Gemini ; L'Atelier xt.z. ; Fearless-Tatto (SSUL), Fearless - SUL, Light & Light-Vent , Transformer TL's: (SUL & Light), Transformer 2 SUL & UL.
thief
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« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2011, 07:49 AM »

The astral glides were not meant to fly with a tail...the cascading bridle and the bowed skin should be keeping it stable on its own...i do know that these kites do like clean winds...
with the "hourglass" shape of these kites the bottom half can act as a rudder and twist opposite to the top half....

The tail on the mini mad hata looks ineffectual but it works awesome!!!
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Kites kayaks & corgis again!!!
asburyparkjohn
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« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2011, 09:28 AM »

Thief - thanks I will try it without a tail.
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In my kite inventory of Dual Line Kites: Benson - Inner Space, Signature Kite of Top Pilots on an Old Style Gemini ; L'Atelier xt.z. ; Fearless-Tatto (SSUL), Fearless - SUL, Light & Light-Vent , Transformer TL's: (SUL & Light), Transformer 2 SUL & UL.
asburyparkjohn
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« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2011, 09:45 PM »

I think after trying it with a tail, without a tail and taking a tape measure with me its just a kite that likes clean winds. No big revelation here as with most SLK kites other than deltas? Not so much clear of buildings type clean winds (this too) but not an on/off gusty type wind either even at 10 mph. I was off on the initial measurements. The standard on the top bow is 7" and bottom is 4" according to the instructions. I previously mentioned 8" and 4". You then move up/down accordingly such as 5/2(low wind),6/3,7/4(std setting),8/5,9/6(high wind). Would not go 10/7 since 9/6 is the limit on the adjustments in terms of bow bend limits. I was erroneously flying it at 8/4. KOOL KITE. Looking forward to steady winds in the 5-10 mph range. I would say Thief that you are right a tube tail would HINDER this kite in any condition and it seems a ribbon tail would not matter either way on this design. Still looks good but has no stability value from my one day test flight the following day after reading your advice. Will confirm in the near future. Thanks everyone!
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In my kite inventory of Dual Line Kites: Benson - Inner Space, Signature Kite of Top Pilots on an Old Style Gemini ; L'Atelier xt.z. ; Fearless-Tatto (SSUL), Fearless - SUL, Light & Light-Vent , Transformer TL's: (SUL & Light), Transformer 2 SUL & UL.
thief
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« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2011, 03:28 AM »

I think that a ribbon tail cannot hurt....try it!
Is this an original gibian or a premier made one?  The premier ones are not as built as the senior builds them of course. ...

They are a favorite design of mine.....my minute says on the wall most times though. ...
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Kites kayaks & corgis again!!!
asburyparkjohn
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« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2011, 06:04 AM »

Its the Premier (China). But I must say very well built. Really. This kite needs some fly time and and a slight educational curve ... for sure. Its a keeper. I know for $75 more I could have purchased an original - Medium (six feet). Its all for the good. His Moonbeam kite leaves me in awe. Incredible. See my problem ... Thief  Grin.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2011, 06:15 AM by asburyparkjohn » Logged

In my kite inventory of Dual Line Kites: Benson - Inner Space, Signature Kite of Top Pilots on an Old Style Gemini ; L'Atelier xt.z. ; Fearless-Tatto (SSUL), Fearless - SUL, Light & Light-Vent , Transformer TL's: (SUL & Light), Transformer 2 SUL & UL.
ron gibian
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« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2011, 08:06 PM »

I'm so sorry for not seeing this a lot sooner, 90% of the trying to be helpful comments are wrong no tails needed and the rudder twisting effect that one of them talks about is wrong and if I can have a moment with you on the phone i can resolve all your issues with the Astral glide. This the problem with this company and thats why no more. I have no control of anything they do and has done nothing but leave a few dissapointed and frustrated  folks as they don't print correct info in spite of me going over things with them a thousand times. the Astralglide is a world wide known platform and designed to fly indors if built for it all the way to gale force winds in Europe where they where the only thing in the sky. My ten foot versions will lift camera equipment and many of the kap guys have used them effectively in the past.
My phone#'s are 559-627-5149 office at home 559-737-3525 on the cell
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Hal
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« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2011, 06:56 AM »

Listen to Ron!  He helped me with mine years ago.  The Astral Glide is a remarkable kite, looks good in the sky - without any tail   Smiley
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Hal
Helena, MT
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