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Author Topic: Good vented kites?  (Read 4210 times)
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obijuankenobe
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« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2011, 03:14 AM »

It's simple physics.  If the wind is blowing 25mph...you need to move your body and arms faster than that to create slack.  Running forward at 10mph means the kites still feels more than 15mph.  You might be able to combine arm and leg movement to create brief slack, sure.  But high winds also means far from steady or even wind...another prerequisite for really enjoying the experience.  All your inputs could be spot on perfect and completely identical every time and in high winds the extra variables will frustrate you.  Vents do almost NOTHING to help tricking.  They bleed pressure so that the kite won't explode.  And they create odd behavior in other positions (fade and turtle).  That's it.

Or...you must have a kite that can enter alternate positions without slack.  Some kites can flop into a turtle in high wind, and thus can be made to do a snap lazy or even an inverse.  The rolling cascade is a good high wind sequence.  I can think of the Transfer...and the Cosmic.  And then you are limited to these tricks and to other tricks that need pressure...like the comete.  2PT landings can be nice if you dare.

But in 25mph...any kite...vented or not...will, in a master's hands, only do about three rungs of the JL starting from the edge...before it powers up and flies away.

Tricking in high winds is antithetical to the whole idea of trying to achieve aoxomoxoa IMHO.  If you are looking for venting to help you...you are looking in the wrong direction.  Instead, look for a STRONG framed kite...and learn which tricks 'need' pressure...and which tricks need slack.  The tricks that need slack...save those for days when you can create slack as the pilot. 

I live in Norway.  The wind here sucks.  Whereas I used to fly 5 days per week in the Netherlands...I fly four times a year here.  That is life with weather featuring either dead or gusting winds combined with uneven tree covered terrain. 

Once you have flown a few times on a beach in winds under 15mph...the hard core 'fly any time any where any conditions' newbie inside you will die.  It will be a good riddance.

obi 
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"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." L daVinci
RonG
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« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2011, 03:31 AM »

Once you have flown a few times on a beach in winds under 15mph...the hard core 'fly any time any where any conditions' newbie inside you will die.  It will be a good riddance.
There is some truth to that, at least in my experience.

I have always viewed a vented kite as an unfortunate necessity if you're going to compete, rather than something one owned for fun.  Most vented kites are not much more fun in 25 mph winds than a standard kite would be, they've simply had aspects of their performance significantly compromised in order to survive high winds.  Every vent you cut into an existing sailplan is going to change something, and rarely for the the better - anyone who tells you otherwise is probably trying to sell you something.  In my own case, designing my own competition kite started more as an experiment to see if I could come up with a high wind kite I could tolerate, since most of what I had tried prior to that fell far short.

The amusing thing (to me, anyway) is that most of the times someone raves about how the "vented version flies just like the standard", they're flying the vented kite in 10-15mph winds.  IOW winds that are just barely higher than what the standard kite can handle.

And regarding the Speed Limit (mentioned earlier in the thread), those variable vents were no free lunch either.  I competed with that kite long enough to know (both the original version and the 1998 update).  The variable venting did a nice job of smoothing out gusts, which was a plus for maintaining even speed across the window.  But a kite that interprets every strong input the pilot gives (like during a slack line trick, or even a stall) as a "gust" is going to require some very specific technique to fly, and even more technique to trick.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2011, 03:34 AM by RonG » Logged
Bob D
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« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2011, 04:27 AM »

I think Ron sums it up about right. I fly my Nirvana vented and Transfer xt.r vented in 10-15. Like Ron said, it's only really fun if it's in a range that's just beyond the standard's range.

I DID fly my Rev Supersonic a few weeks ago when the wind was really moving and it was great fun. I have a vented B Series and a vented Rev 1 that are nice too when the wind is too fast for a dual.
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Adamld13
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« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2011, 07:09 AM »

I wouldn't even leave the house if the wind is over 25km. But often I go out when it's 9km and within an hour it's gusting up to 35km or so. The ONLY reason I even mentioned 35mph is because that is what my fox is rated for...whether its realistic or not. I'm asking about what other vented kites there are? For the few who have read more than just the thread title and givin ideas thank you:)
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Danno419
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« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2011, 08:33 AM »

I wouldn't even leave the house if the wind is over 25km. But often I go out when it's 9km and within an hour it's gusting up to 35km or so. The ONLY reason I even mentioned 35mph is because that is what my fox is rated for...whether its realistic or not. I'm asking about what other vented kites there are? For the few who have read more than just the thread title and givin ideas thank you:)
Adam... just pack the snapshot... bring some treadless shoes... and i'll meet you on the other side of the park.
 Cheesy
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JoE Talon UL #4
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Hmmmm Talon vent or SUL next... decisions decisions.
RobB
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« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2011, 09:22 AM »

Although I can fly & trick (on the edge) my vented QPro in some serious winds, I switch to a Rev B series full vent when the wind is solidly over 15mph. Both kites can be flown up to 30mph+, but the Rev is more fun. It depends if you're out for a workout, or just want to fly for fun.
You can spend the day running with the 2 line, or just hanging out with the quad.
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tpatter
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« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2011, 09:47 AM »

As obi said, high wind is the perfect time to practice high-wind tricks, forget about the pinwheel in those winds!  Smiley

I love high wind flying with a smaller kite with light pull and the ability to execute tricks as fast as a I want which all help in higher wind flying.  The pull is a deal breaker for me.  If the kite pulls too much in 20, then I don't want it because I won't fly it. 

The kite will show you when it is near it limits and then you can back down.  My standard will fly in the 20s, but not as comfortably.  I pull out in the vent in gusty nasty wind or when it's holding a steady 15+.

So, FL or T, in high winds, it's a vented Lam kite for me!  Smiley
« Last Edit: December 21, 2011, 09:51 AM by tpatter » Logged

6 kite tom
lylenc
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« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2011, 10:29 AM »

Tricking in high winds is antithetical to the whole idea of trying to achieve aoxomoxoa IMHO. 

Once you have flown a few times on a beach in winds under 15mph...the hard core 'fly any time any where any conditions' newbie inside you will die. 
obi 

That's especially true for us old farts. After flying for some period of months or years, the Zen comes more from quality than quantity of time in the air. My body can't tolerate much hard pull, or worse, looking up high in the window. Even the Vented Rev 2 is hitting my physical limits at 35 mph, but I can keep it low in the window. With so few beach vacation days available each year, it's worth it ... until I get back home. I'm willing to pay the recovery price for the next two weeks. This year, it was four weeks, so I may have to switch to one of those thong quads.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2011, 10:34 AM by lylenc » Logged

Craig     Walla Walla, WA     Just One More!
Adamld13
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« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2011, 06:08 PM »

Hahaha..... No Dan I will pass on that one:P Sounds to much like work  Cheesy
I've actually been considering trading or selling the snapshot.

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JimB
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« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2011, 06:50 AM »

Have a look at the Talon vent.

It's definitely a trick kite.

It's definitely a vent.

Don't expect miracles.

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Patchouli
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« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2011, 07:38 AM »

I have a Silver Fox 2.5 vented. I used 150ftx150# lines and I can yoyo,fade,JC'ed in high wind but it's a workout.  When I get tired I switch for my rev.  Grin Adam dont be lazy !  Grin
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Wayner
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« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2011, 12:02 PM »

I own is a Silverfox 2.5 VTD. Im pretty happy with it but I find its like flying a tank.

I found the same with mine SF and quickly went looking for something else. Picked up 3 kites that work for me.

HIGH WINDS
Picked up a Mantis V2 on the swap meet based on recommendations of forum members. Love it.

IN TURBULENCE
Don't know your wind conditions but in Las Vegas our high winds come with turbulence. The Mongoose is very very effective in working with less than ideal wind. Handles high wind as well.

FOR FUN
Like others have said get a 6 footer. For me it is a Jumping Jack Flash that is quick and a blast to fly.
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Michel
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« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2011, 12:02 PM »

The Atelier Transfer xt.s VV has been flown by winds 70 km/h (On the left, that's Tame Bird's Team kites at Berck-sur-mer kite festival).

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Bob D
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« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2011, 01:19 PM »

I tried out the xt.s standard and it's a BIG kite with lots of pull. I like the xt.r with partial vents when it's between 10 and 15 mph. L'Atelier kites are nice kites!
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Bob D.
JimB
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« Reply #29 on: December 24, 2011, 12:13 AM »

Well I like the Xt.s VV, but it is definitely a lot of kite on the lines.
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