GWTW Forum
August 27, 2014, 01:48 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Forum Info Login Register Chat  
Welcome to the GWTW Forum.
Guests (non-registered users) can view the forum but are unable to post.  If you don't have anything to say then why would you bother to register?
One of the most popular sections of the GWTW Forum has long been the Swap Meet.  A great place to sell old, seldom flown kites or to get great deals on used (gently flown) kites.  Only registered users can see the Swap Meet section, let alone wheel and deal.  1000's (literally) of kites have changed hands thanks to the Swap Meet.
There are several more benefits to being a registered user, but you'll have to join our little community to find out all the "secrets".
Questions or concerns? Contact Steve ... just drop an email to: forum.gwtwkites@gmail.com

Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: First Quad flight  (Read 3689 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
B-13
Trade Count: (+5)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 213


Location: Port Louis, Mauritius

« on: January 05, 2012, 08:41 PM »

Hello all Dark Siders.
After some wait the Supersonic is here and it's my ever first Quad line kite after the several dual lines i owe.
Has been very excited to fly it and watched every tutorials possible and read many books until it gets here..now that it is here, things are not quite the same as in your mind Sad

First flight on Wednesday to get some feel of it (First ever quad line flight too). Staked the handles as in the tutorials and walk down to end of the lines to get the kite connected, wind was a bit too low for it i think and it will just fly few feet before landing back. Waited a bit while having my hands on it on the ground and moving individuals wings (up, down, right & left) to know how things work in this new kite

Then winds picked up i managed to get it up... WHAT AM I DOING??? Being still too used with dual lines, i get the kite to move left or right or spins before crashing LE down 
Harder than i thought, i got some seconds of control before it will just dive towards me with LE forward or spins to much near the ground then crash...

Packed up all before i get something damaged on it's first flight then sat down watching a nice sunset

So now i am wondering what could have been wrongly done except user errors. Perhaps to light winds for it to get full control of it. Lines i received with it were #175 and i already built #150 85' for it just in case these are too heavy.
then another issue is that during the spins and turns, it is logic that the lines will twist (2 left twisted with 2 right lines) but is twisting withing the same side possible? I mean top lines will get twisted with bottom lines where the handles hasn't been rotated itself.
Hope my explanations here are clear enough so anyone can understand my issues and drop some help in my newbie Quad career.

Thanks for any help in advance

B
Logged

Proud Member of Kitelife.com #943 Smiley
Dano
Trade Count: (+7)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 643

Location: Sparks, Nevada

« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2012, 09:15 PM »

You just helped me remember all those LE crashes as i first started out too.  Grin
That'll pass quickly as you develop your reflexes and learn how to control your brakes.

It'll all come quick to you, i bet.  Wink
Logged
Smeagol
Trade Count: (+79)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 555

Location: Sacramento CA

« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2012, 09:15 PM »

Well.. first off, the SS probably isn't the best Rev to be learning on..  Wink it's one of the most fast & twitchy out of them all, but if it's all you've got:

  • make sure the lines are equalized
  • in lighter winds you could probably get away with a #90-100 lineset, would help in lower wind conditions
  • you need at least 5+ for the SS to do much
  • typically the lines on the same handle won't twist unless you're flipping the handle in your hand while flying somehow (hard to do unless you're really trying) or they may get twisted when picking up from the ground/stake accidentally - just always check they're not twisted before relaunching
  • remember with the Revs it's more pitching of your wrists up/down for control than left/right as in duals

Have fun with it though, I miss my SS on those ballistic wind days.

-Mike
« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 09:25 PM by Smeagol » Logged
B-13
Trade Count: (+5)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 213


Location: Port Louis, Mauritius

« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2012, 10:10 PM »

Dano, thanks for the encouraging words.. Practice will make it good one day Smiley

Mike,
- Lines are equals (99,9%)
- I will make a set of shorter #90 lines for light wind days
- I didn't changed the handles from left to right hands but i did make twists with the left and right lines. Anyway this was my first flight and i think wind itself was not cooperative that day..
- Pitch control is where i think i am failing here. Has been to used with arms movement with the duals those last months.

I also lengthened the top leaders of my handles. Added a 7" leader with 3/4" knots apart as it has been suggested to me by someone. The bottom leader it self 2" approx has not been modified..but strangely, the handles need to be pull backward for take off and the longer leaders make it almost horizontal in the hand when taking off..
Do any of you modified their handles like this and effects of it on the flight.

Thanks

B
Logged

Proud Member of Kitelife.com #943 Smiley
thief
Board Moderator
Trade Count: (+25)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3569


Location: North Shore of Massa-WHO-setts

WWW
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2012, 03:52 AM »

That supersonic is not a great first quad unless you have some one with you to guide you all of the time.......this from the guy who learned how to fly quad on a guild works minergy-super small, fast and insanely twitchy.

A hint given me about 15 years ago was to put a rubber band around your wrists....that will gently remind you to keep your hands next to each other, and let you easily twist yir wrists to control the kite.....
Eventually you will end up splitting your hands apart while flying but at the beginning stage keeping them next to each is necessary.....

Pick steady winds...this kite will power up in a gust and start to scream across the sky in a gust.......

Time....you will need to take your time, flying a quad is not something that you get the finite movements the first month of flying-unless you are flying everyday.....

Keep at it.
Good winds
R
Logged

Kites kayaks & corgis again!!!
Bob D
Trade Count: (+1)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 572


Location: Saratoga County, NY

« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2012, 03:57 AM »

It sounds like your top leaders are too long. You shouldn't have to tip the handles to horizontal to take off. Move your attachment closer to the handle to see if that helps. You should just be able to tip the handles back to take off. (Leaders are best if you want to add or subtract braking. It's probably not too useful for just starting out.)

Quad inputs are very different from duals. Make sure that you tip the handles back at the same rate to go straight up. The SS needs a bit more wind but it will get too fast too quickly if the wind is too strong. Try and move up and down short distances for starters. Once you're okay with that, tip the right handle forward to spin right. Tip the left handle forward to go left.

My first Rev was a SS too and it took a long time for me too because it moves so fast.
Logged

Bob D.
REVflyer
Trade Count: (+1)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 128


Location: Germantown Maryland

WWW
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2012, 04:17 AM »

you need to determine how much "down" you want tuned into the leader and handle arrangements, but based upon your own comfort level.  Where, on the handles, do you want to place your hands?  do you squeeze fingers, or rotate wrists or push thumbs forward to effect control?  Which ever one you like is correct!  It's about developing your own style, comfort positioning and the amount of "down" in your tuning.

So, now you're on the field, set the kite up with the leading edge resting on the ground.  You need steady wind of at least 10 mph,... smooth & from one direction (this is as much about your flying location as it is the weather).  You are going to keep adjusting the leader lengths (miniscule adjustments!) UNTIL the kite will back-up from this inverted position by a slight movement of your hands.  For me that's a slight push forward with my thumbs, Barresi squeezes the grip, Smitty doesn't use his thumbs at all,... there's no correct way, it's a personal preference.

The exercise that will give you the most bag for the buck?  Practice inverted flight from the ground to shoulder height, then land it s-l-o-w-l-y all the while holding it rock steady.  You will find "less is more".  Try a light delicate touch, tiny handle adjustments, add some energy by walking backwards a step or two. 

Eventually you'll get sick of this exercise, so go chase some clouds, but keep coming back to this until you can back the kite up inverted to the top of the wind window.  This skill set will take many hundreds or even thousands of hours to perfect!   You have mastered quadline flight when you can hold a stationary hover, anywhere in the sky, in any orientation and fly with complete control in reverse.

The handle tuning to determine how much "down" is about getting the sail square to the wind.  That's when it has the maximum pressure.  Imagine you had a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood and you're holding it against a wind tunnel's worth of force.  You should know that if you angle the wood either towards the wind or away you're dumping and redirecting that pressure.  The board doesn't push as hard against your shoulder.  Well the SS kite sail works the same way as that wood, except now you can angle one wing forward and one wing back (twisting or torquing).  This isn't new technology!, the Wright Bros did this before developing a rudder and aileron using four lines and handles on a kite.

The lines must be absolutely perfect in equal length, not close enough, not ever!  Place all four loose lines onto one well-place stake, then affix your handles and pull 'em back tightly, the handles should align perfectly.  Put the left handle into your right hand and try it again.  If they aren't perfect you're shooting yourself in the foot before starting a marathon.  You might still finish but you're making it painfully difficult needlessly, heck it's tough to watch your agony from the sidelines!

The single best piece of advise is to go find some other quad-heads to assist you.  It will cut years of frustration away, possibly saving you thousands of dollars as well (but maybe NOT, ha!)
Logged
mikenchico
Board Moderator
Trade Count: (0)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2173


Location: ‪‪‪‪‪‎Chico, Ca

WWW
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2012, 07:45 AM »

In my experience it takes 3 days to get basic control of a quad down, first day lots of crashes like you descibe, second day you'll experience some control but still crash, third day things will start to click. You are right where I would expect you to be, don't get discouraged.

Line twists: I get the picture that after crashing you may be trying to remove the twists before relaunch by passing the handles one over the other like you might a dual line. Doesn't work for quads, The kite spun, you have to spin the handles, hold them together and spin them to remove twists.

Have a blast.

Logged

"Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see" John W Lennon

"People do not quit playing because they grow old, they grow old because they quit playing" George Bernard Shaw
B-13
Trade Count: (+5)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 213


Location: Port Louis, Mauritius

« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2012, 08:20 AM »

Really appreciate your inputs everyone and thanks for the help here.
As Mike said, i think that the second, third or even tenth tentative would be better than the first one.

Yeah Mike, i think that i passed the handles onto one another to get them untwisted. So as you described, i just hold them together and twists them? Hhmm seems weird but will try it..anyway i trust you guys here Smiley

Logged

Proud Member of Kitelife.com #943 Smiley
mikenchico
Board Moderator
Trade Count: (0)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2173


Location: ‪‪‪‪‪‎Chico, Ca

WWW
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2012, 12:24 PM »

That keeps the handles in the same relationship to the kite that the kite spun in. When you pass the handles hand over hand and keep the top up you'll untwist the two sets of lines, right & left, but you won't untwist the two individual sets, the two lines connected to one handle. I'm sure almost every quad flier will tell you they experienced the same thing their first flights. I know I did   Undecided

You could picture it like this, what would happen if the kite were stationary and you were spinning? The handles would be parrallel and spinning with you, you have to reverse that to untwist the lines. Of couse you could hold the handles just like you were and do some cartwheels to untwist them ... LOL ... sorry couldn't resist  Lips sealed   Cheesy
« Last Edit: January 06, 2012, 12:36 PM by mikenchico » Logged

"Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see" John W Lennon

"People do not quit playing because they grow old, they grow old because they quit playing" George Bernard Shaw
B-13
Trade Count: (+5)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 213


Location: Port Louis, Mauritius

« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2012, 11:34 AM »

So today wind was fine for the Supersonic 12-15kmh. Nice constant sea breeze
Had almost 20mins sorting out the lines (#175) i received with the kite, walked from kite to stake more than 25 times to get them separated and untwisted lol. Just a bad line management from the start even if i followed JB tutorials (thanks BTW)
First day is CHAOTIC!!! LOL 
Told myself i would not want to wait another flight session as i could miss that perfect wind condition. Concentrated and forgot all from dual line and controls
Launch...spins...crashhhh!!! Had another 10mins sorting out what lines and handles i was holding then tried again with more concentration.
Here i am now, handles only 10-12 cms apart in my hands, trying to get both perfectly equal and launch..fly up again, spins but managed this time to get it back LE pointing up 
Applied some brakes to let it down straight and repeated this hundreds times until 100% forward and reverse back to the ground.

I GET IT NOW
What a strange feeling i got when i get it back to the top of the window, stopped it there, then reverse it to the ground, few inches and back up again..
Practiced some vertical moves too but they are not as stable as in horizontal flight and still practicing hovering in vertical while pulling upper part toward the wind.
I changed from #175 to a #150 a made myself and the kite flew way better..perhaps less drag on the line and more responsive. Second time unwinding the lines was better and took me only minutes to start flying. but still need to manage them better
Here is a little video my flight mate recorded from the cellphone and this is dedicated to you all here who helped me with this little rocket

So thanks a lot everyone and i will post a better video when i get better at Rev flying...next year lol

Stepping into the Dark Side  Grin

RevSupersonic - 1st flight.mp4



Logged

Proud Member of Kitelife.com #943 Smiley
Smeagol
Trade Count: (+79)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 555

Location: Sacramento CA

« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2012, 12:25 PM »

Awesome!  Looks like you're getting it figured out..
Logged
Kitelife
Trade Count: (+2)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 390


Location: Portland, OR USA

WWW
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2012, 09:03 PM »

YAY, looks great - excellent start - congrats! Smiley
Logged

John Barresi
Editor/Publisher
Kitelife Magazine
REVflyer
Trade Count: (+1)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 128


Location: Germantown Maryland

WWW
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2012, 04:44 AM »

I want the leading edge pointed at the ground, (not up!) in your practice sessions.  You need to become comfortable in this orientation, so when a bad things do happen you don't go surging into mother earth at excessive speeds. 

*** Relax, we all made this practice session very ugly in the beginning.  ***

The kite rockets into the ground the moment we relaxed our focus.  In reality the kite is more stable in this inverted orientation.  The weight is at the bottom (leading edge) and the kite is tuned so that a neutral hover is your most comfortable position of grip, handle and leader.

Again,... fly it to waist high, hold it there a solid moment and then s-l-o-w-l-y lower it back again to the ground, all the while holding in this inverted position. 

Of course the kite will fly forward, dare I say almost effortlessly!  You need to prevent that or at least greatly limit it's forward speed unless you DEMAND it to fly forward.  Instead work on holding it rock steady and making small/tiny/miniscule/nano-width adjustments.  Less is more!

I've been flying quads almost 20 years and my inverted ascent to the top of the window still doesn't look halfway decent.  It's better, but never as good as it could be!
Logged
Bob D
Trade Count: (+1)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 572


Location: Saratoga County, NY

« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2012, 04:32 AM »

The SS does great dive stops! Looks like you got the up and down. Try turning it around and flying it down and then putting the brakes on before it hits the ground.
Logged

Bob D.
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  


items purchased through the links below help support the forum

Cal Custom

Our forum is made possible by the good folks whose ads appear below and by the members of our community (PayPal donation button at bottom)
In case you missed it each ad is linked to the sponsors web site.  So please, take a moment and visit our sponsors sites as this forum wouldn't be possible with out them.
Interested in running an ad for your business or kiting event?  Contact Steve at advertise.gwtwkites@gmail.com for a quote.

kmacFab
kmacFab

Kite Classifieds Ad
Kite Classifieds

A Wind Of Change
A Wind Of Change

Kitebookie
Kitebookie.com

Untitled Document

Untitled Document
Untitled Document

Untitled Document
Untitled Document


Untitled Document
DOLLAR SHAVE CLUB

Support the GWTW Forum

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.8 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!