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Author Topic: transparent paint  (Read 1770 times)
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shrooms
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« on: March 28, 2012, 01:07 PM »

Hi.
I'm thinking buying a custom made kite but stuck with a choice of white color only.
Do you guys know any good transparent paint which can be applied by a brush and  is able to stick to Icarex for good?

I appreciate any inputs.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2012, 02:35 PM by shrooms » Logged
mikenchico
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« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2012, 02:43 PM »

Matt Brown, who used to be a regular on here was doing some great work with transparent paints, there were just an Acrylic available from most art supply stores, we bought some to experiment with but I'll have to try to find them. The link above gives some info & old email on him.



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shrooms
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« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2012, 03:47 PM »

That's a very good job he is done on the kites, exactly what I want.
I will definitely try to contact the guy.
Thanks a lot Mike.
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Bob D
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« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2012, 04:08 AM »

Very nice Roks! Am I THAT unusual that I like kites so much?
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Bob D.
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« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2012, 07:29 AM »

We had a pretty good email exchange when I first saw those pictures, I thought they were appliqué work and wanted to know how he got the stained glass like colors into the panels. But they are done completely with paints on a white sail.

I wanted to say they were Pebeo paints yesteday but didn't trust my memory. I've lost those emails but a quick google confirms that had managed to stick in my head somehow. They have a transparent Acrylic paint which can be used on almost any surface including glass. Matt used sponges and rags to apply the paint in order to get that mottled effect to the color. He would layer a couple complimentary colors to mimic multi-color glass where he wanted that effect. He did the inner colored panels first then applied the black as the Came between panels.

He did mention the paint seemed to retain a slightly sticky feel to it after drying but he hadn't experienced any transfer. We saw the same thing when experimenting, the paint is dry it's just a property of the Acrylic paint to have a bit of a rubbery feel still when dry. It remains flexible though. Don't apply it in a thick layer, rub it right into the fabric without leaving a significant layer on top. I think he thinned the black so it could be applied pretty thin with a brush.

Hope somebody else will give it a try, it really looks like a promising medium to work with and the results speak for themselves.


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« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2012, 02:20 PM »

I spent several years dying fabric for myself and for a bunch of fiber artists. I am way outta the loop of that world, so I don't know what's what anymore. Still and all, I've got a couple of thoughts and possibilities:

- I don't know tons about paints, but I know there are better products on the market than way back when. I know paint colors are brighter than dye colors, but I also know that dyes become part of the fabric-- they don't just sit on the surface, ready to crack and peel. I know you can find paints that aren't as stiff and "plasticky" as they used to be. At this point, knowing what I know about dyes and the work that goes into making them permanent, I'd go with paints/inks. The ease-of-use and the wonderful colors are very exciting to think about.

- Just about *the* best place to buy this stuff is a place called Dharma Trading Company (dharmatrading.com). They've been around forever and their presence online is second to none. The information to be found about all of this stuff on their site is a treasure trove, not only in product descriptions, but also in video tutorials and other bits.

- Products I've been looking at (added links-- didn't think they compete with the kite shops):

- To the OP: If your paint isn't transparent, you can use what is called an "extender" mixed in with the paint. It's like a transparent paint without any pigment. Cut colored paint with this stuff and you end up with transparent paint. Lots of paints will have extenders that go particularly well with that particular paint, so it's probably best to stick with same brands. I don't know this for sure, though-- maybe one is as good as another.

- I don't think anyone in their right mind can deny that Scott Hampton's work is just brilliant. Googling him and "painting" found a few posts here on the forum that deal with painting kite fabric. Bits here, bits there add up. Eventually. One thing: Scott uses Design Master spray paint. Now I am wondering if you can use the Versatex Fixative to treat the fabric before spraying??

- I am in awe of the work of Ruth Whiting and Tim Elverston (windfiredesigns.com) and peruse their sites as often as I can. I'll never be the artist Ruth is, nor the designer Tim is, because.... well, my brain just doesn't work like theirs do. Dang. Still, a lot of inspiration and information can be gleaned. For instance, in the description for the following video, you can see that she uses oil paints for the Photon kite being assembled. I found that really interesting. I know nothing of oil paints. Is it more flexible than acrylic? More permanent?

Building a Mini Photon fighter kite | Tim Elverston at WindFire Designs
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« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2012, 05:27 PM »

Great stuff Nancy. It wasn't a photo-reactive paint but I might not have discovered that on my own. I love Sun Art and if I ever get to build a woodland faerie kite that would make a perfect backdrop  Grin 

The fixative looks promising too. Our fabrics will hold up to the heat required to fix dyes fine, which should be in the 212-220 degree range since most can be steamed to fix them.

Ken Conrad of Great Winds Kite Co. can also print your design on Polyester fabric using a special dye sublimation process and heated rollers to set it. The fractal panels on Prism kites were done by him. Prices are reasonable considering the investment in the special printers, ink/dye and rollers  and he can do pretty large panels. That process has been well proven over the years.

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« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2012, 06:36 PM »

if the material will hold up to those temps then airbrush paints that are compatible with fabrics will work such as those made by createx.they should be heat set.  The color and effect paints are almost unlimited I dabble in airbrushing and will try this out as soon as i find a white roq for cheap or have Marco make me one.
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« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2012, 02:03 AM »

Great stuff Nancy. It wasn't a photo-reactive paint but I might not have discovered that on my own. I love Sun Art and if I ever get to build a woodland faerie kite that would make a perfect backdrop  Grin 

The transparent version of the paints is the photo-reactive version of the paint, but you don't have to use it that way. Once the fabric is dry, it's not going to be reactive. I'm not sure if the paints are really reactive (like in cyanotype / http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanotype) or if it's just wicking water and/or pigment to the edges of the masks (leaves, objects, etc.) and the heat from the sun is drying everything. In any case, check out the opaque color samples.

Woodland faeries, eh? Sounds awesome!

Quote
The fixative looks promising too. Our fabrics will hold up to the heat required to fix dyes fine, which should be in the 212-220 degree range since most can be steamed to fix them.

I can't even imagine using an iron on the required cotton setting.... on ripstop, nylon or polyester. The fixative idea made me all tingly. I can't even tell you what a huge big thing this is. The fiber reactive dyes I used to use should have been heat set, but I never did. I fixed them with soda ash and it worked pretty well, but I sacrificed some color intensity. Steaming required buying (expensive) or building a steamer and at the time it was beyond what I was willing to deal with.

One time I inadvertently discovered a way to steam my fabrics when I accidentally left a baggie of damp (as yet unwashed) yardage in the back seat of my car in the middle of July.... in Fresno. I guess it was a couple of weeks before I found it. I thought it was going to be a horrible moldy mess, but sucked it up and opened the bag. Oh man, it was fresh as a daisy and the color was intense. I could only guess that the soda ash had kept things from going bad.

Quote
Ken Conrad of Great Winds Kite Co. can also print your design on Polyester fabric using a special dye sublimation process and heated rollers to set it. The fractal panels on Prism kites were done by him. Prices are reasonable considering the investment in the special printers, ink/dye and rollers  and he can do pretty large panels. That process has been well proven over the years.

Thanks for the resource-- was wondering who did Prism's printing. I love dye-sub printing. Heated rollers, eh? I suppose I ought to wrap my head around the idea of using a hot iron on this fabric. Hmmm....


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madhabitz
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« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2012, 02:08 AM »

if the material will hold up to those temps then airbrush paints that are compatible with fabrics will work such as those made by createx.they should be heat set.  The color and effect paints are almost unlimited I dabble in airbrushing and will try this out as soon as i find a white roq for cheap or have Marco make me one.

I would be really interested in how this works out. The thing that turned me off to acrylics all those years ago was the fact that the fabric ended up so stiff and plastic-looking. That's just not the case anymore with many of these products. AND it's not something you have to worry so much about with the kites. Crispy is good, right?
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« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2013, 12:13 AM »

My apologies for bringing up this old topic, but I happend to pop into the forum after a long absence and thought I could add a little info.

I used Pebeo fabric paint to make the stained glass rok.  The fabric is PC31 (coated poly).  The rok is in beautiful shape still today.  I take it out on rare occasions and keep it on display at home.  I almost lost it at my son's birthday party, when I let 3 boys fly various roks and I was momentarily distracted.  A line was cut and I watched as it drifted a block or more past the edge of the park.  It was a miricle that I found it unharmed and retrievable after some driving around.

Anyway, because it is a paint, and the poly isn't absorbent, the paint sits on top of the fabric and only works into the surface indentations of the weave.  The stained glass application was done with a sponge brush and paper towels, both to work it into the weave without putting on a thick coat and for the look of the stained glass.  I recall thinning with small amounts of water and testing on excess fabric.

There is a small area at the base of the spine, where the kite has rubbed grass and sand, where the paint has been rubbed down a bit; although, it isn't severe enough to redo.

If you apply the paint too thick, it is slightly tacky or plasticy when dry especially when left in a hot car.  My very young son slathered a white Virus sail that I let him have a go at, and it worked out fine.  The rok is not tacky.  The fabric paint doesn't crack or flake, nor does it make the fabric stiff on the rok.  A thick application might stiffen it a bit, or a more accurate disciption would be that it gives it more body as it is very flexible.

I did heat set the fabric with a photograph mounting press and silicone paper.  Although, the paint instructions talk about putting the fabric in the dryer to set it, I wouldn't recommend it since the unset paint on the poly as it is heated can stick to any other fabric surfact it touches.  An iron on a lower setting (test on scrap piece for longer than necessary) with a release paper (silicone surface) on top should do the trick.

I am happy with the result and would use the technique again.
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« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2013, 03:09 PM »

No Bob.

You'd be unusual in any case.

Smiley

Very nice Roks! Am I THAT unusual that I like kites so much?
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