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Author Topic: Frustration with Punch Turns  (Read 1326 times)
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tif
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« on: April 08, 2012, 12:42 AM »

It might be the kite...

Winds were right about at 8-10 MPH today (a bit high for Corona, CA).  I was flying my Silver Fox UL 2.5 (which, admittedly, is a boat in the sky) and practicing some basics (landing, taking off from odd positions, general steering, holding my temper with people determined to watch my kite from UNDER my kite... you know, the usual  Cheesy). 

Anyhow, I was trying to practice punch turns, and dammitall, but my SF needed long punches to do more than wobble a little!  Like, a jab just made it a little unsteady, but it wouldn't change direction AT ALL.  Is that normal?  I felt so frustrated!  And trying shapes was out, because I had to pull and punch at the same time, otherwise the turns were too big and my kite ate dirt. 

I think it might just have to do with the SF being kind of a monster to make turn sharply... (Hopefully it isn't me!   Cry)

Also, someone wanted to just try it out RQ and crashed it into the ground, and I lost my tail weights... Where can I find replacements?   Sad   Stupid me....
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Magpiesfooty
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« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2012, 08:52 AM »

Probably the most you should have to move your hands / arms for punch turns would only be 12" - 18" at the most if the kite is adjusted properly.  If you have a big kite like a Force 10 or a 10' Flexifoil you would need more.  Check your bridle adjustments, carefully and how the bridle attaches to the kite. Use your instructions if possible. Generally a little movement of the adjustment knot towards the nose will do the trick. Remember make note of where you started in case you need to go back to that setting. Also any adjustment that you make will affect the kites other abilities. Kind of a Give and Take   I am not familiar with the Fox so my answer on the bridle adjustment is just a guess.

Good luck and happy winds.

Magpiesfooty
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Wayner
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« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2012, 10:12 AM »


Anyhow, I was trying to practice punch turns, and dammitall, but my SF needed long punches to do more than wobble a little!  Like, a jab just made it a little unsteady, but it wouldn't change direction AT ALL.  Is that normal? 


Does your kite turns correctly with and/or pull turns?  Roll Eyes
If it does it would be your technique .  Embarrassed
Guessing your jab movement is to quick. You need to add a delay between your punch out and snap back movement to allow the kite to turn. I was taught to keep both hands at my chest. This makes sure you arm returned to where it started. for a nice square turn  Smiley




 I lost my tail weights... Where can I find replacements?   Sad   

Steve our forum host should be able to get you replacements. Just clink on the Gone with the Wind link on the right side of the page.


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tif
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« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2012, 08:19 PM »


Anyhow, I was trying to practice punch turns, and dammitall, but my SF needed long punches to do more than wobble a little!  Like, a jab just made it a little unsteady, but it wouldn't change direction AT ALL.  Is that normal? 


Does your kite turns correctly with and/or pull turns?  Roll Eyes
If it does it would be your technique .  Embarrassed 

Awwwww, man... Yeah, regular turns are fine.  But unless I pull a little with the punch turn, it's super wide...

Quote
Guessing your jab movement is to quick. You need to add a delay between your punch out and snap back movement to allow the kite to turn. I was taught to keep both hands at my chest. This makes sure you arm returned to where it started. for a nice square turn  Smiley

That's an idea.  It'll be kind of hard to relearn hand placement (mine is always with my elbows bend at a 90 degree angle at my sides)

Quote

 I lost my tail weights... Where can I find replacements?   Sad   

Steve our forum host should be able to get you replacements. Just clink on the Gone with the Wind link on the right side of the page.


Thanks everyone, for the great advice!
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ko
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« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2012, 07:44 AM »

I dont know anything about the silver fox line. But I do know that 8-10 is not ul wind You were probably getting a LOT of flex ,which cant help. I had an easier time learning  the punch turn (still working on it) in the center of the window. with a ul in around 4 or 5 which still gave plenty of power in the sail to feel your inputs. I was given some great tips  here>http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=5906.0
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mikenchico
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« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2012, 09:08 AM »

It's possible your punch is too agressive and you're unloading the sail completely and stalling the kite. That's a usefull move when needed but if you're just trying to do a square corner not the move you're looking for. Try the punch a bit slower more like a push, you need to keep the sail loaded enough to start turning then like said above wait for the turn, then bring the pushing hand back to the beginning position to power the kite back up and exit. In low winds you may need to lean or step back to really load the sail for a good clean exit.
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tif
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« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2012, 08:32 PM »

You know, I MAY have been a little... shall we say, overly-punchy.. with my punch turns. More like jabs.  That might be it... Lol, it's just like me to overdo things.   Cheesy
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Wayner
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« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2012, 10:32 PM »

Sounds like your jab is good enough to get into the ring  Cheesy

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mikenchico
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« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2012, 11:35 PM »

The original terminology was "Push Turn", you said the kite turns fine with a regular pull turn, the push shouldn't be much faster or further then your pull would be to start. So get the image of your ex out of your head  Wink  and do some slower "Push Turns", if that works then speed them up until you find the kites limits.

obijuankenobe posted a nice study of "French Turns" which are push/push/pull but there are shots with him and the kite in frame to get an idea of the speed and distance for the push

AllerEersteFilmpje
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"Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see" John W Lennon

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Ca Ike
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« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2012, 11:37 PM »

THe SF UL really does not like punch turns but prefers combo turns for nice square corners when set up in 3 point mode.  In turbo mode punch turns are better but the speed of the movement is akin to using a manual bike pump to inflate a tire.  HOwever, I suspect your issue is not your technique but the kite itself in the conditions you had.  The frame on most UL's will flex a lot in the upper wind range and when you do an agressive punch turn you relieve that flex(stress) effectively unloading the sail and stalling that wing. As mentioned already slow your movement down a bit and you might find the input will not need to be as big.
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tif
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« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2012, 09:52 PM »

Thanks for all your suggestions and advice! 

Ike: I had been doing combo turns (actually, pretty good at those) with the SF. I thought I'd finally be able to do punch turns with the bridle adjustments.... oy!

Well, at least I know it might not be my technique completely... Guess I'll have to experiment with some other kites.

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