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Author Topic: Beginner two line (foil?) (with a few caveats)...Prism Snapshot? Symphony?  (Read 2495 times)
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lifereinspired
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« on: April 09, 2012, 01:37 PM »

Hello,

I know that I have an unusual situation which is why I really need advice on getting started in two line kiting.

To start, I've loved kite flying since I was a kid but it wasn't until the last few years that I've had much of any chance to do it.  Unfortunately, due to a degenerative genetic condition, I'm disabled but I'm sort of desperately looking for things that I can still do and enjoy (I'm not wheelchair bound but do use a walker and require O2) and kiting is top of the list.  So, for the reasons listed above, I'm not in a place at this point that I can use a "powerkite" but I'd like to get in to two line kites for a little more interest.  In addition, my genetic condition make all my joints very loose and prone to dislocation so I don't want a kite that will pull so hard that I dislocate a wrist, shoulder, etc.  

I love the design of the foils and I'm a total newbie to multi-line kites but instead of a framed two line kite, I'd love a foil that I can learn on, can easily relaunch after crashing (using the walker to setup another launch would take forever) and I love that there's little to no setup or breakability.  Portability is also a factor as it's really hard for me to work out carrying a 42" long kite case which a lot of the framed two line kites seem to require.  I'd love to hear your recommendations...I've read a lot about the Prism Snapshots and have other Prism single line kites (don't laugh *too* hard) but I've also read positive things about the Symphony foils and I just want to get this intro into two line kites right...something that won't be dangerous for me with too much pull but that can handle wide wind variabilities and is easy to learn on and relaunch for the inevitable crashes.  But I also don't want to end up so frustrated that I give up entirely and an interest that I hope will allow me to feel "abled" in a piece of my life again becomes a disappointment.  Just FWIW, I'm about 5'3" average build (used to be really athletic but obviously can't now) so that may give some guidance on size of kite.  Also, I may need an option for my husband b/c he'll always be with me, also enjoys kites and ended up really bored with the single line last time he flew it.  So I can definitely see a similar need for him...although he wouldn't want to be dragged across a field or lifted off the ground, his 6' 220lbs would be able to handle more kite than I can...& I think he would find somewhat of a workout kind of fun...although the same ease of learning and relaunching would apply.  And, I think he'd like to have a bigger kite than me. Cheesy But that's just a guess.
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Hadge
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« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2012, 03:18 PM »

Hi There, welcome to the forum.

You've picked a great hobby in kite flying as you will find we are a very friendly bunch of people.

Having read your post I wonder if you have had a chance to try a 2 line foil kite? The problem I can see with foils is that even the fairly small one can still pull quite hard especially if they catch a sudden gust of wind.  With a 2 line foil the angle of the kite is set so you would take the full force of the wind.  You can get 4 line foils which have an extra set of 'brake' lines which allow you to let some of the air pressure out but these tend to be bigger kites. Also foils are not always that easy to relaunch without setting them up in my experience.

Have you considered 4 line Revolution kites? These kites can perform some amazing manuvers and tricks and have a huge amount of control so you can finely adjust the amount of pull from the kite. They also only require quite small hand movements and unlike foils and stunt kites don't require you to keep moving backwards and forwards - I've seen them flown from sun chairs at kite festivals!!

If you have a local kite club near you go along and I'm sure they'll be able to help you out.  I'm sure some of the others will be along shortly with some more advice.

Have fun with your flying! Grin
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lifereinspired
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« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2012, 03:36 PM »

I know literally nothing about 4 line kites (to be honest, I just figured it was twice as complicated as two line :/ ) so I've not considered the Revolution that you talked about at all.  I didn't know that foils will require constantly walking backwards so that's a good thing to know.  I had read that a couple of the smaller foils like the 1.2 or 1.4 Snapshots were easier to relaunch w/o setting up but the reason I posted is for exactly that reason...experience is much more valuable than kite specs and description.

How expensive is the Revolution kite that you mentioned?  Unfortunately, budget is an issue due to my ongoing medical expenses, so that will be a factor.  I'll do some searching around for more info about it on my own, as well. 

Thanks for the informative reply and for your friendly welcome.  I appreciate both so much. Smiley
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Wayner
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« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2012, 03:39 PM »

Glad to see your excitement. Kites will keep you young.

Foils are a good dual line kites to learn on. Wink

As Hadge said they can develop a lot of pull with then winds pick up and can be hard to launch.  Embarrassed
I'm 6.2 240# and my 1.9 snapshot is fun in lower winds but can pull me around when the wind picks up. The only sizes would be the smaller ones like the 1.2 or 1.4 for the snapshot. Similar for the Symphony.

Can you tell us a little more about your weather conditons.
 - What winds do you expect to fly in?
 - Did you plan on standing or sitting down when you fly?

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mikenchico
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« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2012, 04:24 PM »

A quad like the Revolution is  a good choice if your mobility is limited but the setup is more involved, you will have a longer case and the expense is higher though. I have enjoyed flying the Spirit Quad by New Tech Kites (around $150)  but it's setup is more involved then the Revolution. A plus in the Spirits favor though is that there isn't really a grounded position that the kite can't be relaunched from. Revolutions are more expensive and use better materials, the Rev 2 won't pull too hard and is my favorite. Beginning fliers have an easier time learning quad control then an old dual line flier in many cases.

I hope ypu find something suitable, I can't think of a small, low pull foil with a good wind range off the tip of my head but hopefully somebody has experience with one, that option seems to fill your wishes best.



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DD
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« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2012, 04:32 PM »

I wonder how a 4 line mojo would be for pull?
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lifereinspired
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« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2012, 07:53 PM »

Wow, it really sounds like the 4 line is going to end up best for me.  I didn't know it would be doable for me to learn how to fly but the ability to launch from any position sounds like a definite plus.  It looks like the primary issue will be cost.  I was hoping for something in the price range of the smaller Snapshots or sub $100.  It's just really hard with my ongoing medical expenses.

I don't know if I will be sitting or standing but the possibility of a combination would be best.  I suppose in my head I was thinking I'd have to stand and just not be able to fly for very long at a time but if sitting is a possibility that would be amazing!  I'd use the seat on my walker, probably.  I live in Vermont so no ocean beach winds here.  We get winds from the lake basin but the mountains also make them variable.  Not really typical prime kite flying weather.

Are the 4 line kites stable in light or variable winds?  I noticed in the little bit of reading I've done that there are different types based on whether the material is vented or not.  Can you add onto an existing kite setup once you start with a particular one?
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B-13
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« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2012, 08:29 PM »

Been reading through this since your first post and it seems you got nice advice here Smiley
To be honest, even the more simple single line kite will require some walking at a moment. So this sport is something you will need to move and while playing and flying...this will not be a problem any more Smiley
You will be much absorbed by the game and flight that you will forget all the rest...this is the magic of kite flying Smiley

Now for which type of kite and for the winds you have, i will personally recommend a 4 line quad, Revolution kite.
They will fly in where and how you want them to and depending on the models, they don't pull.
Best thing now is that these kites are reputed to be social and flying shoulder to shoulder with the husband will make this even more fun...This will be something really exciting for him and you will be even more happy when you will see the joy in his eyes Wink
Now your issue is the cost of the packages - They are quite expensive and initial investment can be hard, but they take less abuse than other kites (dual lines) and require less maintenance other than proper handling when packing and unpacking. Some packages are delivered RTF (ready to fly) with two sets of spars for low and high winds...so you are covered in the wide wind range..still cost is the issue but believe me, it's worth it Smiley

Good luck in your quest and don't forget, it's a sport but FUN is the #1 factor Smiley

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tonycarl60
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« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2012, 11:21 PM »

A 2 line eddy (diamond) kite should work, not too much pull and are easy to self-launch. I believe Gomberg kites has these.............
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mikenchico
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« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2012, 11:52 PM »

A 2 line eddy (diamond) kite should work, not too much pull and are easy to self-launch. I believe Gomberg kites has these.............



Jeez ... I knew somebody would come up with the obvious Tony

And there's also the soon to be released Prism Switch. Better looking and less expensive IMO.

I started on TRLBY's, little pull, easily relaunchable from most positions and inexpensive. Both the Gomberg & Prism do have a minimum of 7-8 mph low end wind range, but I don't enjoy Revs or Foils lower then that either.

« Last Edit: April 09, 2012, 11:55 PM by mikenchico » Logged

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lifereinspired
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« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2012, 02:04 AM »

I'll look into the convertible single/dual line setup.  I saw the Prism Switch in my online searches but was unhappy at the low end wind requirements. 

Will I really need as much as 7-8mph winds if I end up getting a Rev???  That would limit flying a lot.

What do you think of some of the other quad line kites...the Mojo, the Spirit, etc.  I found an older model with a huge wind range that was made by HQ the M-Quad which had an astounding wind range of like 3-30mph.  Doesn't seem to be readily available now, though.  If any others come to mind, please let me know.

Just so you know, I'm not *completely* kiteless so I know I love flying.  It's the most peaceful time I ever get.  I don't exactly have a crazy collection but do have a Prism stowaway diamond, Prism EO6, Prism Triad (technically that one's my hubby's Smiley ), one that was a gift that was a used kite that I've yet to have the chance to dig into (but it's a slightly larger single line), a smaller single line foil, and then a crazy semi box kite that we picked up at a beach shop off season that turned out to be a great little flier.  Not exactly a top shelf collection but they're fun.  No light wind ones though...closest is the stowaway diamond.  I hate an ITW Hata but we gave it away because we needed a last minute b/day present for someone and it was the only thing we could think of.  Really dumb move because it hasn't been replaced...but I suppose that's a little a can put towards a quad?? 

If you hear of anyone getting rid of a beginners quad, please let me know.  Or if any other ideas pop up, I'd love to hear them.  Thanks again for all the help and advice!  I appreciate it so much. Smiley
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Hadge
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« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2012, 03:48 AM »

There is a Rev1 in the swapmeet section that might meet you needs for $110

http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=6603.0

I'm only just about to start getting into Revs  but from what I understand the Rev1 in nice & slow with wide wind range. Might be worth talking to the seller.
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Ca Ike
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« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2012, 01:22 PM »

There is a Rev1 in the swapmeet section that might meet you needs for $110

http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=6603.0

I'm only just about to start getting into Revs  but from what I understand the Rev1 in nice & slow with wide wind range. Might be worth talking to the seller.
Rev 1s are bigger and actually pull more than the 1.5 but not too much more.  YOur going to find that you do really need more than 1 kite to cover different wind ranges.  To fly with little movement on your part you will need at least 5 mph no matter what type of kite you get..  With your shoulder issues I would stay away from the foils except for one little quad foil that Tonycarl has that would work for you.  I don't know the details on it though.

For really light wind You should consider getting a single line glider kite like a wala, the new prism zero g (formerly plutz) or horvath hybrid (hq).  THat will be the easiest to fly with minimal movement and stress on you.  Some light wind options (1-3 mph) are the prism 4d, nik nak and i nak by skyburner or there prodancer for dual line.  IF you go with a rev you will need the standard 3 wrap and then an additional 2 wrap frame for light wind or you can try the newer zen light wind rev.  IF your budget is tight like most people these days try the swap meet.  A rev "exp" is a good budget choice and there are a few on the swap.  Buying used from people here is often a good way to go if your searching for something that will work for you and you can always resell it if it doesn't.
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tonycarl60
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« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2012, 06:57 PM »

The little quad kite that Ca Ike was talking about is a 1.4m Parastunter quad foil  made by Go Fly A Kite (I love this kite). But it's not made anymore. I believe Highline Kites in Berkeley bought out remaining stock and may have some left (I bought 2 from them recently).

My video:
Parastunter Quad Kite
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lifereinspired
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« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2012, 03:08 PM »

Thanks everyone.  I'm looking into the Swapmeet section and also checking into gliders.  How the heck are kites so darn addictive before you're even out flying??  I already have a like about 8 kites long that I'd LOVE!  This is a crazy "sport"...the peaceful part and the "magic" of it just gets into your blood and under your skin.  I'm going to have to find a way to afford one of the iFlites because I want to be able to fly it in my hospital room when I have my brain surgery!
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