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Author Topic: FG Knot instead of sleeving?  (Read 1279 times)
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cprstn54
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« on: April 01, 2016, 06:43 AM »

Fisherman are using the FG knot to attach small spectra to large monofilament with maximum line strength preservation.  See, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjzUb5QRKuk

The same knot can be tied around the two legs of a polyester braid loop and thereby eliminate sleeving and the windage of the usual three  overhand knots. See attached pic for a sloppy job I did. I used cheap Chinese fishing braid and some of the color rubbed off on the polyester.

The arrangement seems to work and tests OK.

Ken C
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« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2016, 06:56 AM »

i have never had a flying line split at the knot of sleeving...
sleeving in my mind is great for making the loops easier to release.

20 wraps?? that might not be the easiest way to keep the lines at the same exact length as well.

interesting!
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cprstn54
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« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2016, 07:03 AM »

To permit equalizing line length, the end at the handles could be sleeved.

Also, if you are wrapping [soft and rough] dacron braid and not [hard and smooth] fluorocarbon, I think you could get away with 5 wraps each side.

Ken C
« Last Edit: April 01, 2016, 08:29 AM by cprstn54 » Logged
Will Sturdy
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« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2016, 05:53 AM »

Haven't sleeved in years, never had a failure at the knot. I just use a figure 8.
I leave a ~15mm tail on the leader beyond the knot, and fold it under the larkshead when attaching the lines. Pull the tail and the knot opens.
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cprstn54
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« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2016, 06:33 AM »

Interesting. I have found that the simplest loop that holds in PE braid is a surgeon's loop with three twists. The figure eight, overhand, and bowline unravel for me.

I tried the eight and it did unravel before the line broke.  Adding two half hitches of the bitter end against the standing part prevented slippage and gave a very strong loop with the line breaking away from the knot.

Ken C
« Last Edit: April 02, 2016, 07:43 AM by cprstn54 » Logged
Allen Carter
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« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2016, 08:49 AM »

Haven't sleeved in years, never had a failure at the knot. I just use a figure 8.
I leave a ~15mm tail on the leader beyond the knot, and fold it under the larkshead when attaching the lines. Pull the tail and the knot opens.

Yeah, I stopped messing around with sleeving over a decade ago. I make my loops with two overhand knots and have never had a problem. In my experience the line equalization issues come from two things, sometimes the sleeving itself slipping, but mainly line not being pre-stretched. In my experience with high quality spectra (Shanti Speed, LaserPro Gold and Berry Blue) if the line is stretched properly, it does not stretch unevenly over the life of the line set.

The 75' x 90# Shanti set below has hundreds of hours on it and it shows, but no problems with the loops or unequal lines or whatever. I just make the set and really never have to think about it.



I larkshead the spectra loop over a knot on the bridle pigtail. Quick release without picking at the knot.



Even so, one of the main wear points is the end of the loop as you can see in the old set above. But this set is frayed all over and ready to be dumped by the time the end of the loop starts looking bad.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2016, 08:53 AM by Allen Carter » Logged

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cprstn54
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« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2016, 12:44 PM »

FYI, the figure-8 with (with two half hitches of the bitter end around the standing part) is around 50% stronger than your two half hitches, as tested with a digital fish scale. The two half hitch loop breaks at the first half hitch at around 40% of the line test.

Ken C
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Henri
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« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2016, 01:49 PM »

A splice keeps most of the resistance of the line:
http://kitelife.com/forum/topic/6778-line-loops-eyesplice-a-kiteline/?page=2
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Allen Carter
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« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2016, 06:28 PM »

FYI, the figure-8 with (with two half hitches of the bitter end around the standing part) is around 50% stronger than your two half hitches, as tested with a digital fish scale. The two half hitch loop breaks at the first half hitch at around 40% of the line test.

Ken C


That may be true, but in 16 years of sport kite flying I've never had a line break at the knot...

That's just one person's experience, but my point is that all the hassle people go through with sport kite lines is generally wasted effort.
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Allen, AKA kitehead
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« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2016, 03:54 AM »

build the stopper knot in one leg first, then finish it off with the figure of eight knot, to complete the attachment loop

easy to take off (even w/gloves) and no tangles from sleeving during set=up

You measured where the stopper knot is to be located on a single strand = repeatability
You make the knots with a set of forceps so you can perfectly position the knots against the jaws of the device and use that tool as a common measuring length = accuracy

You divide the lines from a common stake (making 2 flying lines from one folded in half and affixed solidly on those two ends)
Practice the knots and measure how much length is used up in each, add that overall dimension to each end BEFORE melting the folded line (held in the forcep jaws, this time used as a heat shield)

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