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Author Topic: Hypnotized!  (Read 2501 times)
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KSC
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« on: April 26, 2012, 07:17 PM »

Look into my eyes...  Huh



Big thanks to Steve for making my first (of many) kite purchase a great one!

First impressions, it's BIG and much lighter than I expected! Carbon fiber I'm familiar with, but having never handled a real kite before, the thinness of the sail really surprised me.
I guess maybe I expected something more "heavy-duty", like a parka or umbrellaish type material, not so much a crinkly paper-like nylony stuff... Thankfully it's not what I had in mind or it probably wouldn't be leaving the ground any time soon.

Anyway, I was able to put it together without too much trouble, but there were a few awkward spots. I'm always paranoid I'm going to break something, and It felt like I was forcing things that shouldn't be forced. There were a few times when I feared I might rip the whole thing in half, but now that it's together, I can see all that tension is essential to the shape of the kite.

It may take a few days before I can get to a beach/park, so in the meantime I've been watching a bunch of videos and I've come up with a few questions if you guys don't mind?

-Are the bridal clips really necessary? It seems like having metal next to thin nylon has potential for some trouble. Should I take those off and use a larks, or do you think it's best that I leave them on there for a while until I know what I'm doing? Am I just being paranoid?

-I feel like there's stress against the black part of the sail where the leading edge connects. It's fine in this pic, but when the kite was fully assembled yesterday, the sail was much closer to the connector on one side, almost like it was crimped in there a little. Is that something to be mindful of? How strong is the sail material?


 
-When folding the kite back up, (I should have paid attention when unfolding it the first time) I feel like the standoffs are in my way. I'm afraid I'm going to bend them. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but when I get to the last stage, I cant seem to wrap it up tight enough...



Is there a "technique" I should know about or am I just being paranoid?

-The Prism dvd mentions many times that the best way to practice is with a 20' foot set of lines. Is that something I should look into getting? 

Well, that's it for now. I'm sure I'll have BUNCH more questions when I actually get it out of the kitchen!  Cheesy

Thanks, guys.

« Last Edit: April 26, 2012, 07:34 PM by KSC » Logged
B-13
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« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2012, 09:32 PM »

Look into my eyes...  Huh



Big thanks to Steve for making my first (of many) kite purchase a great one!

First impressions, it's BIG and much lighter than I expected! Carbon fiber I'm familiar with, but having never handled a real kite before, the thinness of the sail really surprised me.
I guess maybe I expected something more "heavy-duty", like a parka or umbrellaish type material, not so much a crinkly paper-like nylony stuff... Thankfully it's not what I had in mind or it probably wouldn't be leaving the ground any time soon.

Anyway, I was able to put it together without too much trouble, but there were a few awkward spots. I'm always paranoid I'm going to break something, and It felt like I was forcing things that shouldn't be forced. There were a few times when I feared I might rip the whole thing in half, but now that it's together, I can see all that tension is essential to the shape of the kite.

It may take a few days before I can get to a beach/park, so in the meantime I've been watching a bunch of videos and I've come up with a few questions if you guys don't mind?

-Are the bridal clips really necessary? It seems like having metal next to thin nylon has potential for some trouble. Should I take those off and use a larks, or do you think it's best that I leave them on there for a while until I know what I'm doing? Am I just being paranoid?

Get rid of them as soon as you can! Cut the heat shrink care fully and then slide the clip off the bridle. You will find your way as you cut the heat shrink off. The clips are snag points and a dangerous weapon for the sail. Snags?? You will perhaps not find this today but with time and with some slack tricks, you will get your lines or even the bridle itself snag somewhere.


-I feel like there's stress against the black part of the sail where the leading edge connects. It's fine in this pic, but when the kite was fully assembled yesterday, the sail was much closer to the connector on one side, almost like it was crimped in there a little. Is that something to be mindful of? How strong is the sail material?

Sail material is as strong as you will take care of it Smiley flying in the rain will not affect it but packing it damped and moist will surely have some effect with time. Flying at the beach is great but make sure to get rid of the sand and dirt after flying. I carry a soft nylon brush with me. I say SOFT as brushing the sail can damage the coating too.The mylar part is to be taken care as folding it same spot with time can make cracks in it. Other wise the plastic ferrule is soft and will no damage the sail. You can see it rubbing on the ground but things get different in flight


 
-When folding the kite back up, (I should have paid attention when unfolding it the first time) I feel like the standoffs are in my way. I'm afraid I'm going to bend them. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but when I get to the last stage, I cant seem to wrap it up tight enough...

You will never fold it back as it was before. Forget this. The hypnotist is a tough kite and the sail is really tough too. Is you can get your hands on a long sleeve, buy one. Steve got the nice Prism sleeve here. Thus you leave your kite long and just slide it in the sleeve. LE connected and thus limiting stress and damage from accidental folding and un-folding process. Untighting the LE end bungees which will get loose with time.If you want to fold it as it was factory, don't forget that it was there for weeks, months before getting to you and this time spent in the package made it even more tight. So don't worry about this and just fold it without creasing the mylar and sail with standoffs and bridles inside the sail.



Is there a "technique" I should know about or am I just being paranoid?
Technique will come with time and being paranoid with a new toy is something normal here LOL. Just remember to have fun and care only not to break it while flying. As long it is on the ground nothing can hurt it. Apart wild dogs, walking on the spars or just wrongly setup up from the beginning.

-The Prism dvd mentions many times that the best way to practice is with a 20' foot set of lines. Is that something I should look into getting? 

20' lines are for light winds and recovery practice where the pilots can see the lines and any snag points and un wrap the lines easily. This is an option but if you are new to duals, then you should find this as it will help you understand some aspect of the kite and wraps. Also shorter lines will make the kite react more rapidly but this is not meant for flying IMHO. Just for ground works.

Well, that's it for now. I'm sure I'll have BUNCH more questions when I actually get it out of the kitchen!  Cheesy

Get them here Smiley More are to drop some more lines in what i said and more experienced pilots here will bring their thoughts to help you.

Thanks, guys.




There are many things to say about the hypnotist but with time you will discover them yourself and will ask your questions again. One thing i can say right is add some c-clips or APA stoppers at the LE connectors as i noticed they are not present on the Hypno and this will damage the sail with time.
Mail me and i get you some photos to know what am talking about.

Ohh, i forgot...Welcome to the beautiful world of kiting Smiley

B
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ko
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« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2012, 09:43 PM »

If you can get to a beach were the wind blows off of the ocean,it will be way easier to learn than flying in a park with obstructions that mess with the wind.As for the rest GO FLY IT and have fun! I have a quantum that has had the bridle clips on it for years. so again GO FLY
« Last Edit: April 26, 2012, 09:45 PM by ko » Logged

have fun kurt
KSC
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« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2012, 11:08 AM »

Awesome! Thanks for the detailed reply, B-13! I really appreciate the insight. I'll touch on a few points when I get home from my first day of flying! Cheesy

ko, I'm actually standing on the beach as I type this. I've been at it for over an hour or so and having a real blast. Thankfully the Hypno came as advertised as she's taking a REAL beating'! I'll post a few videos later, so everyone can have a good laugh.  Cheesy
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Ca Ike
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« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2012, 02:50 PM »

Welcome to the addiction KSC.  FIrst suggestion is get yourself a full length sleeve as faily quickly you will do like the rest of us and leave the leading edges assembled.  Second, get rid of the clips as they can bend and the larks head is more secore anyway.  As for packing it up in the prism bag here's what you can do.

1. Fold the leading edged along themsselves, like you do already.

2. bring the rods nest to the spine under the center T making sure the bridle is inside the wing.

3 WHile holding the rods in one hand, find the center of the fold for one wing, tuck the standoffs inside the folded wing and start rolling it up tight.  Make sure you move the standoffs as needed to keep them parallel to the roll and continue rolling up to the spine.  Do not roll the sail around the spine.  I have seen more kites damaged by the fittings when you do.

4 Repeat for other wing and put on the keeper strap.

Prism pretty much packs them this way.

Also, if you let us know where your located there might be some local fliers you can meet up with for some hands on help.


Anthony
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KSC
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« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2012, 05:59 PM »


Get rid of them as soon as you can...

I thought so. I definitely will. Admittedly, I did fly with them on today, as I decided at the last minute to head out to the beach and when I got there was pretty impatient to get started. I didn't want to risk messing anything up after driving an hour and half.
 
Quote
Flying at the beach is great but make sure to get rid of the sand and dirt after flying. I carry a soft nylon brush with me. I say SOFT as brushing the sail can damage the coating too.The mylar part is to be taken care as folding it same spot with time can make cracks in it. Other wise the plastic ferrule is soft and will no damage the sail. You can see it rubbing on the ground but things get different in flight

Good idea. While I was packing up today I took extra care to shake everything out really well, but there was still some small grains of sand lodged inside the stitching of the sail as well as the fittings. I soft brush would be great for this.

Quote
Thus you leave your kite long and just slide it in the sleeve. LE connected and thus limiting stress and damage from accidental folding and un-folding process. Untighting the LE end bungees which will get loose with time.If you want to fold it as it was factory, don't forget that it was there for weeks, months before getting to you and this time spent in the package made it even more tight. So don't worry about this and just fold it without creasing the mylar and sail with standoffs and bridles inside the sail.

You know, attaching the leading edges was actually one of the parts that freaked me out the most when I first put the kite together. I'm still not 100% comfortable doing it. If buying a long bag will not only give me the extra space I need, but also provide me with an excuse to leave the LEs together, consider it bought! LOL

Quote
Apart wild dogs, walking on the spars or just wrongly setup up from the beginning.

That would be just my kind of luck! Assemble the kite, attach my lines, as I'm walking back to my straps, a pack wild dogs just come out of nowhere and attack my kite!  Cheesy
 
Quote
20' lines are for light winds and recovery practice where the pilots can see the lines and any snag points and un wrap the lines easily. This is an option but if you are new to duals, then you should find this as it will help you understand some aspect of the kite and wraps. Also shorter lines will make the kite react more rapidly but this is not meant for flying IMHO. Just for ground works.

Cool. I'll just do what everyone else does and make them from a broken set of lines in the future.

Thanks again for all your help.


-----------------


Welcome to the addiction KSC.

Thanks, man. It's been awesome so far.

Quote
FIrst suggestion is get yourself a full length sleeve as faily quickly you will do like the rest of us and leave the leading edges assembled.  Second, get rid of the clips as they can bend and the larks head is more secore anyway.

Cool. Both of these are on my immediate to do list.

Quote
As for packing it up in the prism bag here's what you can do...

This worked MUCH better. The standoffs definitely weren't as much in the way as before. I wasn't able to get it back as tight as Prism, but it was a hell of a lot better than the "umbrella" wrap I had before. Thank you.

Quote
Also, if you let us know where your located there might be some local fliers you can meet up with for some hands on help.

I'm in Northern NJ about 15 miles from NYC. Besides braving the local parks, I'll probably being doing the majority of my flying in Sandy Hook or near my in-laws in Suffolk LI.


 
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« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2012, 08:02 PM »

Let me know if you want to fly some kites when you're out on the Island. Also, take some time to check out Liberty State Park, lots of people fly there, and it shouldn't be too far from you.
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KSC
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« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2012, 08:58 PM »

I had heard about Liberty State Park being a hot spot. I was actually going to go there to save on driving, but I feared there might be too many people around. I'm kinda self-conscious when it comes to learning new things, so If given the opportunity, I'd much prefer not having anyone gawkin' at me. ya know? Pre-Memorial Day shore, on the other hand, was practically desolate. Too bad the summer is gonna change all that.  Cheesy

I'd love to get together some time on the Island. I've always wished for an excuse to ditch out on visiting my Mother-in-law, now I have one! Which beaches do you frequent? Are you in Nassau or Suffolk?

As far as today was concerned, I think it went fairly well. I did spend a good amount of time testing the integrity of the kite's nose, walking the 85' dash, and trying to keep the kite on it's back long enough for me to make it back to the straps, but when I was actually air born, I was able to keep it there for a decent length of time before crash landing.

I didn't really attempt anything too fancy, I just did a lot of wind window exploring while trying to keep the kite in the sky for as long as possible. Generally, the kite went where I wanted it to, oddly enough the majority of my crashes were on attempts to do a simple loop. Now I'm under the impression that this is like the easiest "trick" in the book, yet I couldn't seem to get out of the spin before it went wild and smashed back to earth. Other than that, the only thing that actually frustrated me was the inability to keep the kite down after taking the walk of shame and setting it back into launch position. Thankfully, being on the beach I could throw a handful of sand on the sail (probably not a good idea, but I saw someone doing it in a video), but I can't imagine what to do in a park if this were to happen.

Thankfully I didn't break anything, but I sure did give the LE sleeve a beating...



All in all it was an amazing day. My family and I had a lot of fun flying, gathering shells, and just hanging out. This may sound odd to most of you, but I'm not really an outdoorsy guy. You can literally count on one hand the number of times I've actually set foot on a beach in the past decade, but for some reason I was compelled to try this. My daughter and I had such a great time flying a dollar store kite a few weekends ago at the park, that I decided to come online later that day to find us an upgrade. Well, one thing led to another and here I am with a stunt kite spending my weekend on a beach of all places. Looks like that number is going to double before the summer even starts.  Grin
« Last Edit: April 28, 2012, 09:00 PM by KSC » Logged
ko
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« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2012, 09:43 PM »

A little ca will fix that right up. just make sure you dont glue it to the spar. as for dashing back to your kite,at least at the beach toss a little sand on the trailing edge. This will keep it grounded and you breathing a little easier. Welcome to the club
Kurt PS>http://prismkites.com/lounge-training.php
« Last Edit: April 28, 2012, 09:47 PM by ko » Logged

have fun kurt
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« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2012, 05:10 AM »

Is regular old Krazy Glue okay or should I order a more industrial grade online? There seems to be a hundred different kinds, any suggestions for the best brand/formula to have or are they all pretty much the same?

The sand thing is okay then? The part of the beach I was on was a little on the gritty side. Lots of tiny rocks and shell fragments mixed in. I was afraid it might damage the sail. I did it anyway as it was better than a face full of kite, but I wasn't happy about it.
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« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2012, 05:29 AM »

You're going to have to try really hard to damage your sail with beach sand. You are going to need a kite stake, and old screwdriver works for me. That will keep the kite from getting out of hand. If you don't have a stake with you, roll the kite from take-off position back, around, so the nose points upwind and the lines come out at the trailing edge, and over the top of the kite towards you. It won't take off in that position, and when you get back to the handles, just walk back a few steps, and the kite will roll over into take off position. This method is easiest in winds under 15mph. Hopefully someone has a picture of this, it's easier than it sounds.
Good luck !

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« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2012, 07:00 AM »

Ah, so don't just turn the kite 180 degrees, but have the lines actually underneath it and coming back over?

And when you mean a kite stake, you don't mean for the straps, but the kite itself? Where do you secure it?

I totally forgot to bring anything with me for the straps, but I was able to improvise...

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« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2012, 07:07 AM »

HI! Welcome -

If you become a frequent flyer, I suggest getting a full length kite bag (sleeve)  and leaving the leading edges connected.

As far as the clips go, it is a toss up. I eventually cut mine off and used a "Larks-Head" but there is reall no down side to leaving the clips on, I just think it is quicker to us the knot.

Don't worry to much about wear and tear, kites are sportintg equipment and do wear out. I get some "insignia" or "gaffers" tape and reinforce wear spots.

A paint brush is a good item to use for knocking sand off your kite before packing up. When it gets really bad, I just take it in the shower with me.

Have Fun
CV
« Last Edit: April 30, 2012, 07:24 PM by cerfvoliste » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2012, 07:52 AM »

I'm looking at bags now. I'd like to go for the roll-up Prism bag, but I'm thinking maybe the Speed bag is big enough for my needs...for now. Mostly it will come down to cost, so long as the Speed bag is only smaller in width and full sized in length, I think that's probably my best bet.

As far as repair tapes are concerned, is it a good idea to just go ahead and get the Prism repair kit, or should I just get rolls of tape separately?

Thanks for the welcome.  Smiley
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« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2012, 11:10 AM »

I'm looking at bags now. I'd like to go for the roll-up Prism bag, but I'm thinking maybe the Speed bag is big enough for my needs...for now. Mostly it will come down to cost, so long as the Speed bag is only smaller in width and full sized in length, I think that's probably my best bet.

Kite bags have a cool-factor, that's for sure. If you've got more than one kite and set of lines, they become a must-have that you'll be able to justify (heh). The thing is, what these guys are talking about is a full length kite sleeve. That'll save you a ton of money right now. You can get them for as low as $4, but our forum host (Steve) has a really nice one for $14 here: Prism Kite Sleeve

Quote
That would be just my kind of luck! Assemble the kite, attach my lines, as I'm walking back to my straps, a pack wild dogs just come out of nowhere and attack my kite! 

It's not just dogs you have to worry over -- gotta watch out for four year old little boys who escape their parent's watch. Deadly.

The Hypnotist is a really good kite to start with-- it's a little heavy, but can fly a large range of wind, especially if it's a nice steady wind. If you do get a chance to fly with Rob, *do* it!! Watching his videos and reading his posts, you'll be able to see that he seems like a heck of a nice guy who knows a ton about this stuff and would be generous with his skills and knowledge. He also seems to have a huge bag of kites for you to drool over.

The short lines are what helped me the most in the early stages. I was able to see where my lines were and The Walk isn't nearly as long..... which is important when you spend as much time on the ground as I did. After awhile, I realized I could feel where I was snagged and can almost always fix things without having to make The Walk.

Have fun with this flying-thing. It's awesome!

Nancy
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"I haven't failed. I've just found ten-thousand ways that won't work."   -Thomas Edison
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