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Author Topic: Lines, lines, lines... ?!?!  (Read 2633 times)
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DD
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« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2012, 05:04 PM »

to sleeve or not to sleeve, one of the great debates
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« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2012, 05:37 PM »


I've been using this technique for years now - works great.  I don't sleeve however - I just don't see a need to and it bunches up with light weight line like 50#.   I do tie some bridle line loops for both ends and just larks head them on.  This makes it easy to adjust length after the line stretches without having to re-cut.

http://www.gwtwforum.com/pdf/making_a_lineset.pdf


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« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2012, 06:52 PM »

OH god this is a big can of worms.  I'll shed what my little light can illuminate.  First off if a line set says "Dyneema" dig deeper.  Dyneema is a brand name for polyester dacron line but can also be used as a name for cheap spectra.  MOst of your cheap kites come with the dacron Dyneema which is ok line but has a lot of stretch, binds easily and is really springy.  IF anyone tells you Dyneema line is spectra don't readily belive it.   However Dyneema line is being replaced by Excel brand spectra which is actually good line but it is still being called Dyneema for some reason.  PRobably just too many info cards left over and manufacturers don't want to just throw them out.


I'm sorry but the parts about Dyneema are simply wrong.
Spectra and Dyneema are exactly the same base material.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-high-molecular-weight_polyethylene
ACtually they are the same "Base" material in that they are both a polyethylene derivative but thats as far as it goes.  The fiber developed by Nasa in conjunction with Allied Signal we know as spectra is a proprietary formula no one else but who they have make it is allowed to know.  The reason we have it in the kite hobby is all thanks to Shanti.   Nasa went to shanti for help developing the threads and rope they wanted from their fiber and in exchange Shanti got permission to use it in kite line and started the Speedline name.

The spectra fiber and the HDPE fiber used in Dyneema line are not the same and Dyneema line is not all the same fiber itself.  I have line  from some of my cheap kites I stacked that is Dyneema brand line but some is polyester dacron and some is HDPE polyester fiber, but NONE of it is spectra. I also have some Dyneema line that looks like it is a braided nylon fiber.  IN short don't assume Dyneema line to be any particular type of fiber.

Ara if the skyline is a resonable price and easily available to you just try it.   As long as you can get 10+ wraps without binding and you don't have to equalize the line set every flight it will work.  However if its not in a premade line set then chances are its not been tried on a dual line.

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KSC
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« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2012, 07:03 PM »

Great stuff. I was pretty much planning on buying some premade line sets simply due to a lack of confidence, but after reading through this thread and the supplied links, I think I'll just go ahead and make my own. After watching the Prism DVD again, I really want a set of 50' and 20' to practice on, and I won't have to wait for my current set to break.
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Wayner
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« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2012, 08:13 AM »

Wow Hadge.

What a tutorial!
I feel like I can now become a professional line maker   Wink   Cheesy


Great feeling when making your own line sets. I like the option of custom lenghts, plus its a lot cheaper.   Grin
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KSC
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« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2012, 10:41 AM »

No doubt thats a huge plus! Just doing some quick math and using $38 as a base price for a #100/100' Shanti Skybond set and assuming we were making 10 equal sets...

Spectra 100# x 1000' = $120
Sleaving = $10
Winders x 10 (@$5) = $50
Straps  x 10 (@$12) = $120
--------------
$300

That total can be drastically reduced if you wanted cheaper line and didn't need separate straps for every set. And as Wayner pointed out, the customization and experience alone would be incentive enough. 

Of course, not everyone has the means to lay the money out all at once or would rather varying weights of line, but it's good to have options, regardless.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 10:56 AM by KSC » Logged
sluggo
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« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2012, 11:46 AM »

Just doing some quick math and using $38 as a base price for a #100/100' Shanti Skybond set and assuming we were making 10 equal sets...

Spectra 100# x 1000' = $120


I think you'll need to double the amount of line there...
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KSC
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« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2012, 12:20 PM »

Yikes! So much for "simple" math.  Lips sealed

Hmm, maybe it's better to buy premade sets when starting out then after all?
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Ara Ararauna
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« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2012, 01:13 PM »

But you don't have to use all the spool in one go!

You buy the spool and make one or two sets with different lengths (the sets, not the lines  Wink ) and you keep the rest for future and/or when one line breaks, etc...

What are you going to do with 10 sets of lines?
Cheers,

N.
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Ara Ararauna
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« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2012, 01:26 PM »

I've been using this technique for years now - works great.  I don't sleeve however - I just don't see a need to and it bunches up with light weight line like 50#.   I do tie some bridle line loops for both ends and just larks head them on.  This makes it easy to adjust length after the line stretches without having to re-cut.

http://www.gwtwforum.com/pdf/making_a_lineset.pdf


Thanks Tom.

So, although it is great to now have two very well explained techniques for making the lines, I am now put in a dilemma of having to decide which one I use?!
 Roll Eyes

Both line sets I have, which were ready made, are sleeved:
1. The lines that came with my Nexus from Prism: "65' x 90 lbs Spectra™ (19.8 m x 40.8 kg)" (which I wonder which type of Spectra they are...)
2. The lines that I got from Steve when I bought my Soul from him: "Dynamic 100% Dyneema 100lb 82ft"

And I'm happy with them being sleeved...

I think it will also depend on what my local store can provide. I think that will be the easiest way to decide.

Cheers,

N.
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Ca Ike
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« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2012, 02:10 PM »

PRism line set were at one time LPG but now I think they use excel but its still spectra
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Hadge
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« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2012, 02:25 PM »

, I really want a set of 50' and 20' to practice on.

To be honest I would think twice about using a 20' line set with something as big as a Hypnotist especially if you are a new flier, they are really short. Problem is that while you can see what is going on ( which is probably why Prism mention using them) you have zero time to react when things go wrong or if you get a sudden gust of wind. The only time I tried them was on my UL shadow in 2-3 mph and then I only used them once. Most of the time a set of 80-100' lines of around 90/100lb will be the most useful and cover 90% of your flying.
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« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2012, 02:45 PM »

PRism only recommends 20 foot lines for practicing recoveries but IMO you don't need to go that short.  IF you want to get that close to your kite just grab the lines closer to the kite but I think its a wast of line to make a 20' set for practice on a full size kite.
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« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2012, 02:56 PM »

Yeah, recoveries is why I mentioned them. The video talks about shorter lines a whole bunch of times, I figured they were worth having. Not to mention the fact it would give me a chance to do something on these days where I can't get the kite off the ground. Oh well, that's  just my eagerness talking, I guess.
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Gamelord
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« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2012, 03:43 PM »

When I was trying to learn a bunch of new tricks, I hacked my 75' lineset down to 40'-50'.  Not so that the tricks were easier to do or that I can see the kite better, the only reason was that the walk of shame was shorter!!! Smiley

Now that I am not tangling the kite lines up as much, I normally use 75' lines.  Shorter lines can be more difficult if you are not use to them.
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