GWTW Forum
October 25, 2014, 09:19 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Forum Info Login Register Chat  
Welcome to the GWTW Forum.
Guests (non-registered users) can view the forum but are unable to post.  If you don't have anything to say then why would you bother to register?
One of the most popular sections of the GWTW Forum has long been the Swap Meet.  A great place to sell old, seldom flown kites or to get great deals on used (gently flown) kites.  Only registered users can see the Swap Meet section, let alone wheel and deal.  1000's (literally) of kites have changed hands thanks to the Swap Meet.
There are several more benefits to being a registered user, but you'll have to join our little community to find out all the "secrets".
Questions or concerns? Contact Steve ... just drop an email to: forum.gwtwkites@gmail.com

Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: E3 First impressions  (Read 5104 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Admin
Administrator
Trade Count: (+1)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 62


Location:

WWW
« on: May 16, 2009, 08:05 PM »

"For some reason as soon as I took the new Graphite E3 out of the bag I had the overwhelming desire to don a pair of Doc Marten's and queue up Nine Inch Nails on iTunes"  more...
« Last Edit: May 17, 2009, 07:13 AM by Admin » Logged

Forum Admin
"It's good to be king"
windchaser1
Trade Count: (0)
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4

Location:

« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2009, 06:48 PM »

So what do you think about the way it flies . Wanting to maybe get one but not sure yet.
 Wink
Logged
anOldMan
Trade Count: (0)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 147

Location: Belgium

« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2009, 10:27 AM »

Could you send a picture of the bridle?

Logged

Hill  :-? :-?   What hill?   I don't remember any HILL!!  :-? :-?

anOldMan
Gardner
Trade Count: (+5)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 130

Location:

« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2009, 05:03 PM »

The E3 is a very good kite, and is reminescent of the QPro in flight Wink.  That is a very favorable comparison since the QP is the top of the line Prism and manufactured in the US while the E3 is an intermediate with a made in China tag.  The E3 build and materials, however, are quite good.

There are issues Embarrassed, mostly minor Smiley which are easily remedied. Out of the bag, I found the E3 was a bit on the squirrely side Cry which needed some bridle mods Embarrassed.

First, the attachment points need to be moved Huh.  I moved the top bridle connections beneath the upper spreader.  The loop is between the spreader conncector and the stopper.

Next, the lower bridle connection was moved up to between the stoppers and the connector for the winglet.

The next mods were to the bridle itself.

The outhaul, from the leading edge to the tow point, needs to be shortened by about an inch.  There's no need to cut the sewn loops at the end of the line.  Just tie loops in between the lower spreader and the tow point.  The outhauls on my kite measure 20.5 inches to the strong wind knots.  Be sure both sides measure the same Angry.

The is no change to the top haul (that's my name for the bridle segment from the tow point to the upper spreader.) By lowering the attachment point, that line has been effectively lengthened one inch Shocked.

The next mod is to lengthen the in haul, from the tow point to the center-T.  If there is enough material in the line at the rear end of the center -T, just move the knot down Undecided.  Otherwise, a new in haul line must be made from surplus bridle line if you have any Embarrassed.

My in haul measures 24.25; however I have used a 23-inch in-haul.  I'm considering shortening that line some to about 23.75 inches.

The final mod I'm going to make is a spline with some backbone to it Angry.  I inadvertantly did a nose plant this afternoon while flying and the spline collasped at trhe center -T Cry.  I'm thinking Sky Shark

Steve I need your help here Sad.

Hope this helps those of you who have purchased the new E3.   I like the kite

Gardner





 your help here.
Logged
KaoS
Trade Count: (+18)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 564


Location: Willunga, South Australia

WWW
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2009, 06:24 PM »


The is no change to the top haul (that's my name for the bridle segment from the tow point to the upper spreader.) By lowering the attachment point, that line has been effectively lengthened one inch Shocked.


Under tension, the bridle lines travel forward from the kite towards the flier (hold the two tow points and let the kite hang flat on its back to visualize this) .  Moving the attachment point "down" the leading edge doesn't change the length of the top haul line by anywhere near an inch.  It might change it by an eighth or so, and I suspect will have a barely noticeable effect on forward flight.

The relocation might have a more significant effect on flat oriented inputs, when the kite is in flare, fade, turtle positions.

I suspect the standard bridle will suit a lot of fliers.  There were many E2 fliers who were happy with Prism's choice (although it didn't suit my preferences).

I read somewhere (might have been the Prism forum) that Mark Reed chose the spine on the E2 for it's mass characteristics, to make rollups sharper.  You might find a Skyshark that suits, but you might also find yourself tweaking you bridles even more

Logged

Kevin Sanders

Willunga, South Australia
chilese
Global Moderator
Trade Count: (+5)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3074


Location: Las Vegas, NV

WWW
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2009, 06:33 PM »

I found the kite to need larger, stronger inputs to do tricks than I would have guessed. It looks like the kite is set more toward the "yank & spank" school of flying.
Certainly a beauty.


Logged

John Chilese: Las Vegas, NV
http://picasaweb.google.com/chilesej
Gardner
Trade Count: (+5)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 130

Location:

« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2009, 06:52 PM »

Kevin,

You may be right about the effect of moving the top haul from above the upper spreader to below the spreader Embarrassed.  I do know the move has a definite effect onturtles, rollups and axels Smiley.  The E3 seems to like the lowered attachment points in combination with moving the lower spreader attachment points up.

The spline on the E3 is .505 poltruded Sky Shark carbon I think while the E2 is P200. My E2 has the original Prism Hot Rods.

Regards,
Gardner
« Last Edit: May 23, 2009, 06:55 PM by Gardner » Logged
DaveH
Guest
Trade Count: (0)
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2009, 07:52 AM »

I agree with John on this one.  I found it nice, but a bit of a tank in terms of inputs required. At Gardener's suggestion I shortened the outhauls a bit and found the spin performance much more to my liking.  Backspin inputs much less critical and just more easy going, if that makes any sense.  For me the spin performance with the shortened outhauls reminds me a lot of my E2.  Nice. I liked the rollup performance right out of the bag.  My only issue with the kite was its spin performance.  And the only slight change I did to the bridle was shortening the outhauls a bit.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2009, 04:33 PM by DaveH » Logged
Gardner
Trade Count: (+5)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 130

Location:

« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2009, 12:06 PM »

Dave and John,

The way my E3 is adjusted the kite feels very much like a QPro in flight.  The E3 also will readily rollup and rollout yo-yo) with very light inputs, axels require just a tug and  stalls come to a dead stop.  These are on 90-100 foot lines, I discovered.  I thought I was flying 75-foot. My mistake yesterday.  I was flying the E3 side by side with a QP UL.

Gardner
Logged
Fast EDDY
Trade Count: (+4)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 62


Location: CA. Ventura

« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2009, 10:19 PM »

UP DATED July 5th  Huh

My BIGGEST THINGS ABOUT THE E 3

The Final Write UP: Below

So "FIRST and FOREMOST," This write up is NOT for the Beginner. What I'm going to suggest should only be done by a qualified modification kite shop or pro pilot.

I am a COMPETITION QUALIFIED PILOT purposely tweaking and getting all the performance out of this E 3 Kite that I possibly can!!!

Here's my E3 modification:

After reading this Posting and a Few others Before I flew My kite the first time.  I had gone through the kite in the shop with a fine tooth comb. Realized a couple minor things I knew I would end up changing right away. I had my Friend fly a bit and sure enough we moved a few things around to SUIT the winds in the Ventura AREA. Kite flew well but was a bit too touchy at first in the high winds.

Moved the Upper bridal connection BELOW the top spreader connection, and the kite settled right in. Lowered the High wind Knot about 1.5 inches to slow the kite down. I had already moved it .5 inches lower in the shop. The KITE flew JUST FINE and was NOT Squirrely at all with the trim set this low and OUT!!!

For the Light wind days we Moved the Light wind knot Up just more than 3/8 of a Inch. We then added one extra hole inboard for the light wind set up for the stand out. Allowing the kite to fly in the 4MPH winds, short 50Lb lines with a bit of work. However this kite is still a bit heavy to have out there.

Hit the ground a few times and could see the weakness here and there in the kite. I have re-enforced the center spreaders on my E 3 the same way most people have on the E 2s. All in all a Great kite out of the Bag and with Little bridal adjustmnents it does better in handling etc.

I will also be making a second standout 1/?" shorter than the main one to add to the kite, same as so many have to the E 2, to see if the kite will trick better as well as roll up or track with less heavy handed turning. To come later in my next posting and fallow up writing.

There are a LOT of write ups Critiquing this kite on the net and not giving it great ratings. IT is a Beginner / Intermediate Kite that is the FIRST real stunt Kite for the Beginner who is usually Heavier Handed. Does not fly with Finger Tips etc. KEEP that in mind. IT is Not a Q Pro, or a Deep Space, it is an E 3!!! Period. It makes Great slow cordinated turns and flys stright and will suit any beginners needs as well as any intermediate out there.

It is a Fabulous Kite that I got to Tweak a bit as another person flew. I cant wait to get my Hands on it after my injury Heals Up a bit and fly it myself. THANK YOU AGAIN SLOW PRO for the time of flying my Kites and helping me out for the Day.

  Part 2 Sept 8th

The center spreaders were re-enforced with Epoxy, Two wraps of Fiberglass Tape, One wrap in each direction for the tapes ply, 3/8th inches longer than the other.  Heat Shrink Tape 3/8ths longer than the tape. To strengthen the Center Pin area as well, I added a Second Stand Off. To create a nice channel flow like the Q Pro and helps in the tricking and sail tention.

The Bridle was lengthened as far OUT from the Center "T" as possible by moving the knot to the extreme Bottom of the center Bridal Line. That took the tow point out about 1/4 of a Inch at the Center T.

The "Second" stand-out is now just under 1/8th inch shorter than the Main one. Not Quite 3/16ths though. To make the Second Stand-out, I used .118 solid carbon for the inner new stand off and the original is the one I cut down. So the weaker stand-off will flex a tiny bit in the sail that is tight as can be when it's all said and done.

This brought the kite into a much better sail tension as well as adding to the Tricking factor over all. The Kite easily stays in a Fade now and does not have a tendency to want to Nose out.

The Batten Is turned IN and placed on the Inside of the sail during set-up and flying as some of the Top Pilots I Know have come to do. This reduces one less line catching place along the kites back side. The Batten is also "CURVED" so the Point is Down towards the tip. Just look at it, It will make since easy enough.

I also have had to tighten the sail's tension at the wing tip's. My knots were moved in more than 1/8th of a inch. ALWAYS REMEMBER to tension your Tips before you put your stand-offs in. I also place my outer knot inside my sails leading edge so there is no place to catch a line on a tip.

Bridle movements: I moved the Upper Bridle below the top spreader connector. It is above the heat shrink on the leading edge. It helped when the kite is on its Back a Lot. Much easier as a whole to maintain the fade and back spins. However I have Broken my KEEL with my bridal mod's in flight doing the Comet...

With the Kite disassembled, at the lower spreader connector,The Lower Bridle is Moved UP to between the Lower spreader and the Batten holder. Remove the Lower Spreder APA fitting and Double wrap the leading edge with the Bridal. Just be sure to have the wrap come out the BOTTOM or Top on Both sides. Do this to both leading edges.

Now, your bridle tow point is moved outward approximately 1. to 1.2 inches. Depending on the amount of slack in the inboard movement from the Original factory set up, this movement of the tow point decreases the turn radius. This improves the sharpness of the response time to the lines and your hands.

The 15gram tail weight must be set at 1/2 to 1/4 inch above the Velcro or the tail sags too deep in a Fade to do easy Back spins. As the spin slowed down the tail would SAG too much, loosing the fade and all. I Personally suggest you play with your setting and see where "YOUR E 3 Kite" likes to sit simi-flat or just 1/2" tail down in a Fade position. Remember no more or the Back spin get tougher to do.

I hope this helps all who seek to tweak-out their E 3 kite.If you tweak-out your E 3, please let me hear from you. Have just as much fun as Always, Remember to Fly SAFE and keep those kites a Flippin'!

Fast Eddy


   
« Last Edit: September 08, 2009, 10:24 PM by Fast EDDY » Logged
DaveH
Guest
Trade Count: (0)
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2009, 08:20 AM »

now that I'm getting used to it I'm noticing the frame flexing. Not a big deal, just not as rigid and true in trick combos as say my Nirvana or Nitro framed Exile. I'm really liking the E3, though.  I've got about 8 hours on it so far. Its not the ultimate kite or anything, just a whole lot of fun.  And its capable enough so I haven't felt the need to reach for anything else lately.  Of course the post office left me a note friday that my custom DS is here, So I'm thinking the E3 is gonna get a break Grin
Logged
anOldMan
Trade Count: (0)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 147

Location: Belgium

« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2009, 08:11 AM »

To Dave and Gardner,
Is the E3 bridle a standard Turbo setup?

Did I notice any stretch in the bridle "out of the box"? If yes, did the line stretch evenly?

I really do not wish to go through all the trouble with the E3 bridle as I have with my two Zephyrs.
Logged

Hill  :-? :-?   What hill?   I don't remember any HILL!!  :-? :-?

anOldMan
Gardner
Trade Count: (+5)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 130

Location:

« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2009, 09:19 AM »

Old Man,

I haven't noticed any stretch in the E3 bridle lines Grin.  If there has been, it has been even because I regularlly measure bridle lines to make certain each side is even. Angry 

The bridle in the E3 seems to be a rather straigtforward, uncomplicated bridle.  It is not as 3-point.  You shouldn't have any problems with it Smiley.  BTW, I'm not familiar with the Zephyr, so I woun't comment on that.

Line-stretch, by the way, is not exclusive with Prism since most kite manufacturers and builders use the same line, made by the same companies, for bridles.  If it's not the same brand, the materials are essentially the same.

Therefore, my thought is why worry Sad.  Just go fly and have fun Cheesy.

Gardner
Logged
DaveH
Guest
Trade Count: (0)
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2009, 04:41 PM »

To Dave and Gardner,
Is the E3 bridle a standard Turbo setup?

Did I notice any stretch in the bridle "out of the box"? If yes, did the line stretch evenly?

I really do not wish to go through all the trouble with the E3 bridle as I have with my two Zephyrs.


According to what I learned studying Andy Wardley's writings, the bridle is a static bridle.   I don't think you're in for any hassle or huge undertaking with this bridle. 

My opinion was out of the bag it just took too much oomph to get it to spin for my taste.   Andy W's work stated that shortening the outhauls increases spin performance at the expense of precision.  So I shortened them a bit and was pleased with the results.  For what it is I think its a pretty decent kite. 
Logged
chilese
Global Moderator
Trade Count: (+5)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3074


Location: Las Vegas, NV

WWW
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2009, 05:50 PM »

The E3 I flew had a short turbo bridle leg. By moving the inhaul down, you could convert the bridle into a static setting.
Logged

John Chilese: Las Vegas, NV
http://picasaweb.google.com/chilesej
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  


items purchased through the links below help support the forum

Cal Custom

Our forum is made possible by the good folks whose ads appear below and by the members of our community (PayPal donation button at bottom)
In case you missed it each ad is linked to the sponsors web site.  So please, take a moment and visit our sponsors sites as this forum wouldn't be possible with out them.
Interested in running an ad for your business or kiting event?  Contact Steve at advertise.gwtwkites@gmail.com for a quote.

kmacFab
kmacFab

Kite Classifieds Ad
Kite Classifieds

A Wind Of Change
A Wind Of Change

Kitebookie
Kitebookie.com

Untitled Document

Untitled Document
Untitled Document

A Wind Of Change
skyshark

Untitled Document
Untitled Document


Untitled Document
DOLLAR SHAVE CLUB

Support the GWTW Forum

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.8 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC
SimplePortal 2.2.1 © 2008-2009
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!