GWTW Forum
April 19, 2014, 09:05 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Forum Info Login Register Chat  
Welcome to the GWTW Forum.
Guests (non-registered users) can view the forum but are unable to post.  If you don't have anything to say then why would you bother to register?
One of the most popular sections of the GWTW Forum has long been the Swap Meet.  A great place to sell old, seldom flown kites or to get great deals on used (gently flown) kites.  Only registered users can see the Swap Meet section, let alone wheel and deal.  1000's (literally) of kites have changed hands thanks to the Swap Meet.
There are several more benefits to being a registered user, but you'll have to join our little community to find out all the "secrets".
Questions or concerns?  forum.gwtwkites@gmail.com

Pages: [1] 2 ... 5   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Relixir  (Read 4620 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
chilese
Global Moderator
Trade Count: (+5)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2888


Location: Las Vegas, NV

WWW
« on: June 07, 2012, 05:56 PM »

Had a brief chat with one of the excellent kitebuilders on the Forum.

With the thread of older Prism designs in mind we came up with an

idea for a project kite.

1 Duplicate the Elixir in size, framing, weight.

2 New panel layout, just for variety.

3 Fly it and see if newer sticks/material/whatever improves on an
     already amazing design.

4 Don't sell the kite.

5 At any rate, it would be a great "what if" sort of experiment.

I even came up with the name. Which is a good contribution, because
my sewing skills suck.

RELIXIR

I'm open to panel layout suggestions or your thoughts on the subject.  Smiley



« Last Edit: June 07, 2012, 05:58 PM by chilese » Logged

John Chilese: Las Vegas, NV
http://picasaweb.google.com/chilesej
chilese
Global Moderator
Trade Count: (+5)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2888


Location: Las Vegas, NV

WWW
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2012, 07:06 PM »

I thought the noodley leading edges were a feature.

Along with the mylar...

It's.......so.........shiiii.....nyyyyyyy......... (can't.....look......a...way....)  Huh
Logged

John Chilese: Las Vegas, NV
http://picasaweb.google.com/chilesej
John Welden
Trade Count: (0)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 477


Location: Seattle, WA

« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2012, 07:28 PM »

You guys should go for it. Sounds like a good project.
Logged
Tmadz
Trade Count: (+1)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 371

Location: Middle of an Illinois cornfield

« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2012, 07:34 PM »

Can you do the spectrum with the Mylar or the citrus(?) with black panels in place of the Mylar?
Logged
zippy8
Board Moderator
Trade Count: (+13)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1021


Location: Vihtavuori, Finland

WWW
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2012, 07:50 PM »

1 Duplicate the <insert kite name here> in size, framing, weight.
So that's what a slippery slope looks like.  Embarrassed

Mike.
Logged

Virtual Freestyle - ǝlʎʇsǝǝɹɟ lɐnʇɹıʌ
chilese
Global Moderator
Trade Count: (+5)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2888


Location: Las Vegas, NV

WWW
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2012, 08:13 PM »

Awwwww Mikey, give the kids something to talk about. Would you rather see another 2.2m N look-alike?  Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: June 07, 2012, 08:53 PM by chilese » Logged

John Chilese: Las Vegas, NV
http://picasaweb.google.com/chilesej
cerfvoliste
Trade Count: (+2)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 320


Location: Ashland Oregon

WWW
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2012, 08:15 PM »

I am so honored.... to have stood in that picture. Thank you John.
CV
Logged

Wayner
Trade Count: (+11)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 921


Location: Las Vegas, NV

« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2012, 08:23 PM »

The project sounds like fun.

Hope Mark at Prism would support your idea.

Logged
DD
Trade Count: (+15)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 881


Location: Ohio USA

« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2012, 08:31 PM »

First changes: drop the Mylar and noodley leading edges.
Yes less noodley would be good
Logged

Sine Metu!
zippy8
Board Moderator
Trade Count: (+13)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1021


Location: Vihtavuori, Finland

WWW
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2012, 10:57 PM »

Awwwww Mikey, give the kids something to talk about.
If you really want a new Elixir then either get Prism to make them, get Prism to make the plans available in some way or get Prism to give you their blessing.

If Prism don't bite for any of these then simply banging out your own copy.... well, do I have to spell it out ?



 Huh


What is the world coming to that I'm the one defending Prism's IP ?

Mike.
Logged

Virtual Freestyle - ǝlʎʇsǝǝɹɟ lɐnʇɹıʌ
sluggo
Trade Count: (+9)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 49


Location: Arlington, MA

« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2012, 11:25 PM »

What is the world coming to that I'm the one defending Prism's IP ?

Just  to play devil's advocate... Are you talking about formal IP (copyright, trademark, patent), or an informal "not nice to potentially deprive a company of revenue" sort of thing? (or something else?) If the former, what specific IP is being infringed? If the latter, where is the loss of revenue occurring because of this specific project?

I don't put much stock in slippery slope arguments -- I think you to draw the line somewhere, and allow someone to slide down the slippery slope until they cross it.

But mostly I'm curious of other people's opinions because I think this thread raises some interesting questions.
Logged
zippy8
Board Moderator
Trade Count: (+13)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1021


Location: Vihtavuori, Finland

WWW
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2012, 11:43 PM »

Just  to play devil's advocate... Are you talking about formal IP (copyright, trademark, patent), or an informal "not nice to potentially deprive a company of revenue" sort of thing? (or something else?)

Frankly, both.

Quote
If the former, what specific IP is being infringed?

Intellectual property (IP) refers to creations of the mind: inventions, literary and artistic works, and symbols, names, images, and designs used in commerce. - WIPO

I am going to go with designs used in commerce.

Quote
If the latter, where is the loss of revenue occurring because of this specific project?

Almost certainly nowhere. But that isn't relevant, legally or morally but especially legally.

Quote
I don't put much stock in slippery slope arguments

What is being discussed is copying a kite. Thus far the designer hasn't been asked to offer an opinion on the matter. The kite is difficult to come by for reasons. Would different reasons (ie; too expensive) lead to different excuses why it's OK to do ?

Quote
But mostly I'm curious of other people's opinions because I think this thread raises some interesting questions.

It does. I am always saddened when a kite design dies and I'd much rather it be allowed to live on somehow but most kite makers/manufacturers just seem to consign them to the history books.

I'd be delighted to see new Elixirs or RElixirs in the air but my delight does not mean anyone should just dive ahead and do it.

Mike.
Logged

Virtual Freestyle - ǝlʎʇsǝǝɹɟ lɐnʇɹıʌ
mikenchico
Board Moderator
Trade Count: (0)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2162


Location: ‪‪‪‪‪‎Chico, Ca

WWW
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2012, 01:11 AM »

Have to agree with Mike here and it is clearly stated in the heading for this section

Quote
A place for you "do it yourself''ers" to discuss your favorite techniques. Please note... GWTW does not support nor approve of the copying of existing kite designs.

and it thus goes against the wishes of "The Forum", doesn't matter what arguments you want to make, it doesn't belong here.

At least not until Mark Reed gives his permission for the experiment.

Sure changing the panel layout and materials make the kite somewhat different, not selling it lessens the argument for deprivation of income except for the one kite and getting rid of the "Noodly" leading edges will totally change the character of the kite.

But there's this   Sad 


1 Duplicate the Elixir in size, framing, weight.


« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 01:28 AM by mikenchico » Logged

"Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see" John W Lennon

"People do not quit playing because they grow old, they grow old because they quit playing" George Bernard Shaw
Ca Ike
Trade Count: (+24)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1698


Location: Stockton, CA

« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2012, 01:41 AM »

Awwwww Mikey, give the kids something to talk about.
If you really want a new Elixir then either get Prism to make them, get Prism to make the plans available in some way or get Prism to give you their blessing.

If Prism don't bite for any of these then simply banging out your own copy.... well, do I have to spell it out ?



 Huh


What is the world coming to that I'm the one defending Prism's IP ?

Mike.
Being the other half of that conversation, a long time prism kite flyer and a fan of the older prisms (just something about the way they fly) I like the idea.  IT has been said on more than one occasion that the elixir was one kite that should have been looked at for an update.  If take on this project it will be strictly a 1 off experiment not for sale

That being said, and out of respect for Mark and the original team I would talk to them before actually building one.  Nothing wrong in dreaming up an idea and doing some concept drawings. Many new ideas and product improvements have started this way but MR Emery is right. IT would be the right thing to do to present the concept, once through planning, to Mark for his permission to proceed with a build of an exact copy(sail shape etc even with a different panel layout and framing).

For the time being this is just and idea.


 
« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 01:56 AM by Ca Ike » Logged
RobB
Trade Count: (+9)
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: leet


Location: Long Island

WWW
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2012, 03:58 AM »

I see nothing wrong with doing this as a personal project. There was nothing mentioned about the kite being produced and sold to others. It sounds like a personal challenge that will end up with a new 'Lix copy that cost $120+ in materials and $500+ in labor. When you could buy a used real deal Prism Elixir for the same cost as the materials... This isn't the same thing as the Chinese knock-off kites that are cheap copies of current designs that are made for profit.

I think if Prism isn't going to produce its classic designs 'ever again', then maybe they should be released to a third party boutique maker (who might pay a vig to Prism), or to the public like the other designs that are available to individual kite makers. That might be a nice way for Prism to thank the kite community for putting them where they are today.

I've always thought it would be interesting to see what could be done with the Elixir to modernize it, like the Gemini has evolved over it's lifespan.
Logged

Pages: [1] 2 ... 5   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  


items purchased through the links below help support the forum

Our forum is made possible by the good folks whose ads appear in the right margin of the forum and by the members of our community (PayPal donation button at bottom of the page)
In case you missed it each ad is linked to the sponsors web site.  So please, take a moment and visit our sponsors sites as this forum wouldn't be possible with out them. >>>
Interested in running an ad for your business or kiting event?  Contact Steve at advertise.gwtwkites@gmail.com for a quote.


member support is greatly appreciated!

Cal Custom
kitekids.net



Untitled Document
J Hall Photography

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.8 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC
SimplePortal 2.2.1 © 2008-2009
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!