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Author Topic: Relixir  (Read 4640 times)
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Tmadz
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« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2012, 05:39 AM »

It was stated clearly in one of the conditions, by Jon, that it's an experiment and not for sale. Everyone wants to see if this would work, but it would great to get Marks ok (or at least acknowledge not to sue).
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John Welden
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« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2012, 06:35 AM »

Lets not take this stuff too seriously.  Roll Eyes

No one is going to care if some kiter copies an old kite design for his personal use.
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thief
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« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2012, 07:54 AM »

Lets not take this stuff too seriously.  Roll Eyes

No one is going to care if some kiter copies an old kite design for his personal use.
the GWTW forum does by the piece Zippy quoted above......
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Kites kayaks & corgis again!!!
zippy8
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« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2012, 11:12 AM »

I don't think that you'll be lonely on that Slippery SlopeŠ.
Misogyny loves company.

Quote
Mock Revolution all you want...
I can, I shall and I have an almost unblemished record of doing so Grin

Returning, if I may, to the original post.... is it not at least common courtesy to ask the designer if you may copy his kite ? Perhaps it may be possible to get the design into circulation again that way rather than figuratively picking his pocket.

Mike.
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Virtual Freestyle - ǝlʎʇsǝǝɹɟ lɐnʇɹıʌ
Allen Carter
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« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2012, 12:36 PM »

Why not just mod a real Elixir? A whole lot cheaper than making a copy.

I don't know what you'll get out of all this, though. Back then Mark spent a ton of time designing and testing. The 'Lix was the result of tons of compromises, but by most accounts the right compromises. People did mod them, but the consensus usually was that Mark got it right overall.

Materials haven't changed at all, There are some different sticks, but nothing radically different unless you want to buy Aerostuff or something. Nitros would replace the GForce sticks for stiffness, but be a tad heaver. Other than that, tapered Skyshark PTs are pretty much the same as then. Small differences.
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Allen, AKA kitehead
indigo_wolf
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« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2012, 02:58 PM »

Why not just mod a real Elixir? A whole lot cheaper than making a copy.

Sort of like trying to restore an old car or motorcycle.  First you have to find a salvageable original.  Not impossible, but gets harder as the years  march on.

I have never seen a Ducati Diana, PBSK Centurion or Blackbird Samurai in person.

For some, I expect the same holds true for the Elixir.

FWIW: Even for personal use, I think I would want a "tip of the hat".... or even a wink and a nod  Wink  from Mark.

ATB,
Sam

« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 02:59 PM by indigo_wolf » Logged
John Welden
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« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2012, 03:34 PM »


FWIW: Even for personal use, I think I would want a "tip of the hat".... or even a wink and a nod  Wink  from Mark.

ATB,
Sam



I seriously doubt Mark would care if someone made their own Elixir. 
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Rx8doc
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« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2012, 03:55 PM »

I am surprised they are not up for sale on Ebay, out of China all ready Cool
Title to Ebay auction: Reary it is a rear Relixir it has a Rism tag on it. ok my apologies to anyone offended. Cheesy

I screwed up a Blue Moon workshop Muse so bad that Ken asked me to burn it, so I am out.
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Kantaxel
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« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2012, 04:43 PM »


FWIW: Even for personal use, I think I would want a "tip of the hat".... or even a wink and a nod  Wink  from Mark.

ATB,
Sam



I seriously doubt Mark would care if someone made their own Elixir. 

I think John knows Mark better than anyone that has posted to this thread.........I think the tip of the hat would be acknowledged simply by trying to reproduce the kite for your own use.
"For your own use" pretty much takes the aforementioned copyrighted infringements out of it, IMO.  How many people have built their own Revs strictly because they are very simple to reproduce? If you have one or access to it, then you have your template.  Building the RELIXIR would be quite a challenge unless you were a very competent builder and I doubt there would be much market for an Elixir at that price.

Jim
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Kant Fly......might just as well buy!
KaoS
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« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2012, 05:20 PM »


I have never seen a Ducati Diana...

I have!  It was lovely Grin
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Kevin Sanders

Willunga, South Australia
Allen Carter
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« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2012, 07:50 PM »

There are a lot of Elixers out there. The last two I bought were under $200 each. Even if one was $300+ it would be cheaper than building your own, considering the amount of time that would go into it.

I really don't know what the goal is here. I doubt you could improve on the balance and trickability. Why even try to improve the flight characteristics? This is not a flyers kite, it's a trick kite. To improve any of the characteristics of this kite in any substantial way you'd have to change the sail shape. Then it's not an Elixer copy so who cares?
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Allen, AKA kitehead
DD
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« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2012, 08:30 PM »

what year was the elixir introduced? what year did it cease production?
I dont know that you would gain alot in updating it. Less noodly maybe
what would you pay for a "new" model?
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Sine Metu!
Ca Ike
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« Reply #27 on: June 08, 2012, 08:52 PM »

I have a lix dated 2000.  I think they stopped in 2001 or there about.  THere really isn't much I can see to update except framing and panel layout.  Add covered le fittings and stops or roll bars for more reliable yoyos.  As is pitch is fine but it doesn't like to forward pitch too well and the turtle is kind of weak.  I should have kept my prism garage sale demo lix.  DOn't really want to frankenstein my mint jungle.
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John Welden
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« Reply #28 on: June 08, 2012, 09:11 PM »

Comments on the Elixir variations I had:

Changed out leading edges to tapered sticks. (Whatever came in the Illusion, can't remember) I wash't good enough at flying at the time to appreciate any difference.  Those sticks are a lot easier to break, so that kind of took some of the fun out of the kite. It was nice how you could do ground work and thrash an Elixir if you felt like it.

Mark let me make a SUL Elixir. I framed it in Vapor sticks and used the lighter weight sail materials. Essentially a Vapor with a light weight Elixir sail.  I  tied a bridle similar to what was on the Gemini.  I didn't have the kite all that long before it was stolen, but it was pretty fun to fly if you were really into Elixirs. It would backspin quite well and that was unusual for a SUL kite back then. I can't remember if I could roll it up.

I framed one in 5pt's to use as a higher wind beach kite. It sucked because flying Elixir in higher winds sucks. I only like flying Elixirs in UL'ish winds.
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sluggo
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« Reply #29 on: June 08, 2012, 09:12 PM »

"For your own use" pretty much takes the aforementioned copyrighted infringements out of it, IMO.

IANAL, but in the USA at least, I don't think so, except for some specific cases of "copying for personal use" like making copies of music recordings that you already own. More relevant is the question of whether the Relixir would be infringing any copyright in the first place.

For example, though a printed schematic for a circuit board could be copyrighted, the circuit it describes and even some specific PCB layout for that circuit are generally not themselves copyrightable, so although you couldn't duplicate the schematic either for yourself or for inclusion in your bestselling book of circuits, you can build the circuit for whatever purpose you desired without fear of consequences (unless of course you run afoul of a patent somewhere...)
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