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Author Topic: Putting Designs On Complex Surfaces  (Read 1222 times)
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chilese
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« on: June 20, 2012, 06:56 PM »

There is a lot of difference in the projected shape of a sport kite

once it has been assembled. To end up with a desired design, one

must account for that difference. Paul Shirey told me that he was

surprised at how much his parallel "striping" of an AeroStar prototype

changed when assembled.



So what is the best way to assure the final shape on a sport kite looks "normal"?

  Overhead projector (which has its own errors)

  Painter's tape on a shaped sail

  Laser level coordinate grid

And to be totally correct, one would want to account for the typical AOA outline

when viewed from the pilot's perspective during flight.

Open to suggestions.  Smiley

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madhabitz
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« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2012, 07:30 PM »

Does the finished sail lay flat after assembly?
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chilese
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« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2012, 07:57 PM »

The sail lays flat without its frame.

It's a sport kite without broadseaming.
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madhabitz
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« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2012, 08:35 PM »

Okay then..... nevermind. I had one idea in mind, but I don't think it would work. I don't think you can do this without seaming pieces together-- which is going to create a secondary pattern where seams meet. If it's done well, with everything carefully matched up, then most people wouldn't recognize that secondary pattern-- their eyeballs will generally only read the stripes.

You'd need to create the stripes first-- sew enough stripey yardage to make the kite. Sew it into whole cloth, rather than trying to create stripey fabric for individual pieces.

Then you'll need to assemble your pattern into one whole piece. Draw parallel lines over the surface of the flat (whole) pattern. The object is to have at least one line running through each pattern piece because you need that line for directional guidance. So to speak. Now separate your whole pattern back into pieces. You are going to lay your pieces onto the whole cloth, placing the drawn lines parallel to your stripies.

Sew everything together, matching up converging stripies at the seams...... and they *should* converge. Hmmm.... I'm sure I missed a step, but if I did you can read this tutorial. lol.... wish I'd thought to look for it first:
http://www.coletterie.com/tutorials-tips-tricks/tutorial-how-to-match-plaids-and-stripes
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Wayner
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« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2012, 08:37 PM »


Open to suggestions.  Smiley


Although I have never built a sports kite (I have build SLK).

I would build the sail in a single color, then put the design on the completed sail when framed.

When unframed you would have the sail layout.  
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madhabitz
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« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2012, 08:47 PM »

Here's a better tutorial:
http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2395&context=extensionhist
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mikenchico
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« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2012, 09:44 PM »

Well I'm not sure what you mean by "painters tape on a shaped sail" I think the deciding factor for me would be - what do I have available or access to?

Easy answer for me, I have projector that can use an opaque picture rather then a transparency although you need to be under very low light. I would project onto a sail, maybe even a paper one and trace or mark out enough reference points that I could complete the design flat on the table. Hmmm .... Wonder where that projector got stored? now that I think about it.

Somebody once told me Ken used a projector to do the Blues Brothers kites to get the perspective right.





« Last Edit: June 20, 2012, 09:48 PM by mikenchico » Logged

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chilese
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« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2012, 09:47 PM »

Not going for complex designs here.   Smiley

Simple design on complex surface.



Regardless of the sport kite, there is both a cupping motion and a pivoting motion

of the sail when the frame is assembled.

How do I make curved lines appear straight?

The Tracer had the opposite happen, when straight panels appear curved:


Painter's tape refers to making an all white kite and then applying & reapplying tape in a series of

hopefully improving iterations toward the final design. Then mark the kite/tape edges and

make panels to fit where the tape use to be.  Smiley

« Last Edit: June 20, 2012, 09:50 PM by chilese » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2012, 03:13 AM »

I do this sort of thing all the time - at least design-wise.

Although, not on sport kites.  I often draw up patterns that go across cellular designs.  These surfaces can be (and often are) more complex than a sport kite wing.

I do it all in CAD.  I make a 3d model of the kite - which, for graphics layout, can be a simple wire diagram if the sail lays in flat planes; for curved/cupped surfaces, a more detailed surface model needs to be developed.

Anyways - the graphic is drawn in 2D and then dropped onto the 3d model.  Works pretty well.  I can then flatten out the model (so-to-speak) and print templates.

You do, however, need to decide from which perspective you want the graphic to maintain its flat/2d appearance.  Most often this is from the flyer's point of view at 90 degrees to the kite (looking straight on at it) - I have laid out a couple that I wanted the graphic to flow from a slightly different perspective, and that can also be done in CAD by rolling the 3d model before conforming the graphic to it.

Here are a few examples (drawings) - again, templates come with the graphic laid out properly from the models:







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John Welden
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« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2012, 06:21 AM »

It would be easiest for me to do in CAD.
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chilese
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« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2012, 10:01 AM »

WOW!!

That Blue/Black/White Duplicity is stunning.
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John Chilese: Las Vegas, NV
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« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2012, 11:45 AM »

I agree, that blue black is totally stunning!
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mikeb
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« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2012, 12:01 PM »

I think it is impossible to do, you can be close but the kite would have to be at the same height in the air at the same wind speed at the same distance from the pilot, kinda like watching a car go by there is a point where you see each of the 4 tires on the ground then 3 then 4 again the 3 then 2 then 3 then 4 then 3 again then 4 and finally the car is gone. It was the same car with the same 4 tires the whole time. Huh Nevermind
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Tmadz
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« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2012, 02:57 PM »

one way to do it, but the illusion only works from a specific viewpoint.
Here's another example, on a larger scale


I need to aim 5" left on this putt.
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Cydonia
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« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2012, 10:35 AM »

I will use CAD too like Pro Engineer or SolidWorks
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