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Author Topic: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!  (Read 4497 times)
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adx1592
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« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2012, 09:11 AM »

Dont worry about end caps, I don't use them. 3 end caps, for a total of 6, yes probably will make a difference. Just take them off, you wont need them. I've had my PDSULs for years and have never had a problem with the nocks breaking or anything.  Smiley
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-Devin Cobleigh-Morrison
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« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2012, 09:42 AM »

Low wind flying is all about technique.   In the lightest of winds, slack is your fickle friend - often the enemy. 

Too much slack and the kite loses all pressure and falls to the ground.  Closely related are inputs - if they are too strong, then you get slack (see above).   The main issue is that there is not enough wind to straighten out any mistakes in slack managment.   So, you either have to not make any or move backwards in order to fix it.

Next time out, practice seeing how slowly that you can get the kite to fly in that low wind.  An SUL like that you can trust to fly extremely slowly - even move forward to see how slow it can go before it starts to fall.  Once you get used to that, then slow sweeping pulls on the kite when you want to go fast or need to account for zero wind seem more natural. 

Good luck,
Tom
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6 kite tom
Ken Bour
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« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2012, 09:48 AM »

Dont worry about end caps, I don't use them. 3 end caps, for a total of 6, yes probably will make a difference. Just take them off, you wont need them. I've had my PDSULs for years and have never had a problem with the nocks breaking or anything.  Smiley

Not sure what you mean by "a total of 6," but I'll remove those 3 end caps on your recommendation. Obviously, everything on this kite was designed to minimize weight and I just added some unnecessarily. Hopefully, taking them off will make a small but noticeable difference...

The winds are very light today (avg=1 MPH). Maybe I'll give it another shot -- loosey goosey! Wink

While I was typing, Tom added some practical advice. Now I have something specific to try... Thanks!

Ken
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Kites: SkyBurner WidowMaker-STD, SkyBurner ProDancer-SUL, Skynasaur Trooper
adx1592
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« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2012, 10:01 AM »

His advice is very, very helpful. Hit it spot on. I thought you meant 3 on each end nock, haha sorry. Either way, 3 will change it. The PDSUL and the NikNak are the kites I'm the most picky about, and I can feel whats weird with it at the end of the lines more than any other kite (probably the only 2). I'm really particular about the set up and what is and isn't on and off it. Probably because I've been flying him almost my whole life. Can't get enough of them. Keep crakin' away!  Smiley
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-Devin Cobleigh-Morrison
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« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2012, 10:04 AM »

Low wind flying is all about technique.   In the lightest of winds, slack is your fickle friend - often the enemy. 

Too much slack and the kite loses all pressure and falls to the ground.  Closely related are inputs - if they are too strong, then you get slack (see above).   The main issue is that there is not enough wind to straighten out any mistakes in slack managment.   So, you either have to not make any or move backwards in order to fix it.

Tom

Never had low wind flying explained better. Thanks Tom.  Smiley

Have had a year of frustration, with slow improvement learning to fly in lower winds.  Embarrassed

You have given me a key tip to watch in low wind flying.  Wink
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Wayner
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« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2012, 10:21 AM »


The winds are very light today (avg=1 MPH). Maybe I'll give it another shot -- loosey goosey! Wink


Hey Ken,

The ProDancer is the opposite of your Skynasaur Trooper. It has light pull on the lines and likes slow, smooth movements.

Your Trooper has a firm pull on the lines and and takes long and stronger pulls for turns.

two different flying inputs for these kites.

 
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vertigo2u
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« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2012, 05:41 PM »

Tom hit it in the head.  Try flying in as light as possible.  I love doing that.  I practice in almost no wind always.  I keep moving in closer and pop the air out of the sail.  Some my 540's are done with almost no air.  Walk forward...get the feeling and then walk back for more pull... 

I use a wind meter in checking air.. or I call 1-586-783-3112  it's the Beach.. I get spot on wind speed and direction.  Call the number and listen to the report.  I luv it.. 
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Kite Bag:  Solus ul, Solus std, Pro Dancer SUL, Widow Maker,Widow Maker UL, Ocius SUL, Vision,Vison 5 stack
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Ken Bour
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« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2012, 09:13 AM »

Tom hit it in the head.  Try flying in as light as possible.  I love doing that.  I practice in almost no wind always.  I keep moving in closer and pop the air out of the sail.  Some my 540's are done with almost no air.  Walk forward...get the feeling and then walk back for more pull... 

I have been trying to practice in light winds, but it sure is challenging when my windmeter shows < 2 MPH!

I am using 50# Skybond, but the length (pre-made) is 100'. Is that too long for 0-2 MPH winds and could that be a partial explanation as to why it seems so difficult to keep the kite in the air? Maybe I should get a 50# by 50' lineset. It seems like it would require less field area as well as walking.

Thoughts? What line length were you using in the last video you made?

Ken
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Kites: SkyBurner WidowMaker-STD, SkyBurner ProDancer-SUL, Skynasaur Trooper
Allen Carter
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« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2012, 09:34 AM »

I've flown the PDSUL indoors on short lines and outdoors in dead calm on long lines. Once you get a feel for how little pressure is needed on the sail to keep it moving, you can walk slowly backwards and do a verrrry slow 360 with no effort. I find that very floaty kites like the PDSUL are actually harder to fly in very low wind than in no wind at all. In 1-2 wind you're always having to balance your own movements to what the wind is doing to the kite.

My advice would be to avoid all slack line tricks until you can fly the kite smoothly and consistently. Doing axels and stuff will just slow down the real learning, which is how to keep the kite in the air. The PDSUL is a pretty difficult kite to do slack line tricks with anyway. It's such an ancient design, it doesn't make things easy. Some folks do a nice variety of tricks with the PDSUL, but they have a lot of low wind experience in general and PDSUL experience in specific. Just fly the kite. It's a blast.

Low wind flying is the best, but a very different skill set from flying in regular wind with regular kites. Well worth the effort!

Have Fun!
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Allen, AKA kitehead
vertigo2u
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« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2012, 01:33 PM »

Al,is so right. Just get to know her.  That balance between low wind and walking..
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Kite Bag:  Solus ul, Solus std, Pro Dancer SUL, Widow Maker,Widow Maker UL, Ocius SUL, Vision,Vison 5 stack
Baby "Zoomer". Symphony 1.8 para foil...
tpatter
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« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2012, 07:57 PM »

100' ?

Line length is a personal thing and I've never flown a pdsul, but, to my thinking, that's too long for a no-wind SUL.  If you are at the beach and have smooth, smooth low wind then I guess.

I generally fly my SULs in super light wind on shorter lines, maybe 65', but kites like the 4D on even shorter, maybe 35-50'.  If its a low, slow flyer, then you can go pretty darn short on the lines and have a great time.   It also makes 360s easier.

Tom
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vertigo2u
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« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2012, 09:20 PM »

If you check my video opf the Sul and Inak.. I think I flew on 100 footer's.  I know I have flown the Inak on 100'.   I usually fly my Ocius Sul on #50-75' ... Jon broke my line one day.  Allthey hadin stock was #50-60' and #50-100'... Works for me...  Of course the shorter lines.  Different kite.  Next low wind day... I'll fly on all three line sets...
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Kite Bag:  Solus ul, Solus std, Pro Dancer SUL, Widow Maker,Widow Maker UL, Ocius SUL, Vision,Vison 5 stack
Baby "Zoomer". Symphony 1.8 para foil...
Allen Carter
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« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2012, 10:53 PM »

The PDSUL is a big kite with a fairly large turning radius. The more sky you have to move around in the better. I would say 75' is minimum for me, but 100' is way better. When learning how to fly in low wind, its great to be able to get a lot of altitude. More time to recover when the kite lodes drive.
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Allen, AKA kitehead
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« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2012, 02:40 AM »

When I'm flying my UL ( HQ Shadow) I don't bother with any straps, I just hook my fingers through the loops on the end of the lineset. You get a much better, direct, feel of what is happening to the kite and the wind.  Also when the loops start to hurt your fingers you know it's time to put the UL away!
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Age and cunning will always overcome youth and skill!

In the bag - HQ Shadow, Prism 4D, Flying Wings Soul Mid Vent, HQ Jive (1), Spiderkites Zodarion, 'Paw' modded HQ Maestro ll, HQ Delta Hawk.
bt
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« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2012, 09:45 PM »

The PDSUL is a big kite with a fairly large turning radius. The more sky you have to move around in the better. I would say 75' is minimum for me, but 100' is way better. When learning how to fly in low wind, its great to be able to get a lot of altitude. More time to recover when the kite lodes drive.

+1.....Maybe it's this particular kite....PDsul....but for me (and some others it seems) 100' of 50 (75 if there is a bit of wind) lb. lines is pure bliss. Agreed other sul's I have or have flown, like shorter lines...but for my old school sloooow floaty style this is what I fly mine on. I also have a PDul and it likes 75/85' lines.....the 100's are ok....go figure.
The first time I flew one was one of Ray Bethell's...he was bugging me about how much I was moving with a Rev 1.5 sul on 50' lines. He said try this...one of his PDsul's on long lines and I was blown away.....still am....
bt
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