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Author Topic: ProDancer-SUL Arrived!  (Read 4830 times)
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vertigo2u
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« Reply #30 on: July 17, 2012, 05:14 PM »

Just the mentionof Ray Bethel makes you sit back and smile... what a wonderful man.   Is he still going Huh
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mikenchico
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« Reply #31 on: July 17, 2012, 08:41 PM »

Just the mentionof Ray Bethel makes you sit back and smile... what a wonderful man.   Is he still going Huh



Like the Energizer Bunny


And he still attracts the ladies

Stop by his site at http://www.raybethell.com/ to have a look around and check his calander (he is taking some time off this year) or his Facebook Page for a bunch of pics .

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"Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see" John W Lennon

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Ken Bour
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« Reply #32 on: July 18, 2012, 02:50 PM »

100' ?

Line length is a personal thing and I've never flown a pdsul, but, to my thinking, that's too long for a no-wind SUL.  If you are at the beach and have smooth, smooth low wind then I guess.

I generally fly my SULs in super light wind on shorter lines, maybe 65', but kites like the 4D on even shorter, maybe 35-50'.  If its a low, slow flyer, then you can go pretty darn short on the lines and have a great time.   It also makes 360s easier.

Tom
There are obviously different opinions concerning the most effective line length for the PD-SUL, but I am lining up with Tom on this one. I just ordered a set of 50# Speedline in 60' length. I think it will be easier for me in really light winds (< 2 MPH) to keep the kite aloft without being a sprinter by training (especially backwards!). I am struggling with the tension/slack when the length is 100' and the winds are 1-2 MPH. I cannot seem to backpedal fast enough to keep air in the sails and I have tried! Sad You guys that can do it are to be envied, but it's just not happening for me. I am willing to acknowledge that it's a skill I haven't learned, so I am going to try on 40% shorter line and see what happens. If nothing else, it'll be part of my continuing education and, if the 60' line doesn't improve the experience, I'll just save it for a glider that I am quite sure is in my future sooner or later (I am on the Chiroptera waiting list).

Thanks, Ken
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Wayner
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« Reply #33 on: July 18, 2012, 05:44 PM »

I just ordered a set of 50# Speedline in 60' length. I think it will be easier for me in really light winds (< 2 MPH) to keep the kite aloft without being a sprinter by training (especially backwards!). I am struggling with the tension/slack when the length is 100' and the winds are 1-2 MPH. 


Good idea, remember their is no perfect length and each length has the pluses and minuses. I found using different line lenghts improved my skills quicker.

I cannot seem to backpedal fast enough to keep air in the sails and I have tried! Sad You guys that can do it are to be envied, but it's just not happening for me. I am willing to acknowledge that it's a skill I haven't learned,


This is a skill you will learn, just keep practicing. First you will fly in 3 mph, then 2 mph then 1mph  Grin
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vertigo2u
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« Reply #34 on: July 18, 2012, 07:27 PM »

Ken,  I luv flying with my #50 75 footer's...don't get me wrong.  #50 75' or 60' will be fine...
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DD
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« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2012, 07:39 PM »

I fly mine on 50# 50'or 75'. I also have a set of really short indoor lines, not that I have flown it indoors
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bt
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« Reply #36 on: July 18, 2012, 10:08 PM »

I, as well, have and enjoy (how could one not?) my PDsul on 50,75,85,and 100' x 50lb plus 75 and 100`x 75lb lines. Each has it`s pro`s and con`s dependent on one`s flying style....old school here.
As per my previous post the 100`x 50lbs are my faves BUT ONLY if there is a perfect no wind...which is rare indeed...otherwise I prefer 0 wind decas.... Lips sealed
When I first tried Ray`s PDsul on the long lines I only managed to keep it in the air for about half a minute...however I could feel the kite really wanting to fly but my (low wind) skills weren`t there at all. Now many many moons later I sorta get the hang of it...
bt


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vertigo2u
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« Reply #37 on: July 22, 2012, 07:59 AM »

Wind hasn't been co-operative past couple days.  I flew yesterday at a Kite Fest in Maumee State Park Ohio.  Wind was real low.  I flew my Red Ocius Sul.. Broke lower leading edge.  Embarrassed ( Jon took it home with him.  He'll fix it .... This is one reason to move to Michigan if you fly... Break a kite take it to Jon..minutes later it's fixed. )  Wink Wink Wink  Switched to Blue Ocius Sul.  The Ocius Sul loves doing turtles and multi Lazy Susan's. 

I started out with the Widow Marker Ul ... even got 3 1/2 FFF (American Version) ... So close I could feel those straps on my Fingers.   Tongue Tongue Tongue Tongue  Then the wind died.  Kites came down.  Even the 75 kites on one string.

However,everyone had to watch Vertigo flying his Sul... I actually walked a long distance from gang of flyers.  When kites went down, individuals actually thought the wind was by me. Suddenly I had people coming to my area..  Single line kiters.  Big Para-Sail flyers.  I watched as they took up space where I was flying.  Inside I thought "... how rude..."  Angry   I also knew I was flying a Sul and they were not going to get up... I was right..  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Soon I was by myself again...  Cool Cool Cool Cool

I was going to set-up the Dancer but just flew till I was hot and tired.  I needed the higher wind. I am so close. 

Worse case yesterday I did FFF's three in a row twice,but No Video camera.   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy  I am going to do four in a row many times over after I get them... But I need four for my straps.  First set gets Norm sewing.  I am sure he is up night worrying right now..   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


I can hear Norm right now  ...  "...What Me Worry ..." Alfred E. Neuman President of the " American Version French Flic Flac minus $24.51 Inc.".
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Ken Bour
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« Reply #38 on: July 24, 2012, 02:51 PM »

A 60' Speedline 50# lineset arrived and I tried it out in very light winds (1-2 MPH). I still found it exceedingly difficult to keep the PD-SUL except when a > 2 MPH breeze came along... I thought that, being so much closer to the kite (actually surprised me!), it would require considerably less pedaling, but it was not as dramatic as I had hoped. When the wind eventually died down below 2 MPH consistently, I gave up fighting with it. It was really hot and humid and I just didn't have the energy to work that hard and sweat that much!

Yesterday afternoon, the winds were averaging in the 2-3+ MPH range, so I chose the longer 100' Skybond (50#) and had a pretty nice coupla hours flying the PD-SUL. When the winds died, occasionally, instead of backpedaling furiously, I just used those opportunities to improve my landing skills while waiting for the breeze to pick up. Overall, it was a decent experience, but I do have a few questions for the experts:

1) I believe it is possible to do an axel or 1/2 axel with the PD-SUL. I'm pretty sure I've seen it done on a Devin video; however, I must be missing something critical. Every time I tried to give slack to one wing and tug/pull the other at varying strengths (anywhere in the window), that upper wing just caught wind and wouldn't rotate. What is the secret to get the kite to spin on its axis?

2) I tried to do a maneuver where I fly straight down and, then, push both arms aggressively to put the kite on its belly. Even when I quite literally RAN forward, the kite just went straight down and bumped its nose. How do you get it to flare or pancake? Eventually, I'll be asking how to get it out of that position, but first I'd like to see if I can even get to that point with this kite.

3) I also tried a turtle where I fly straight upward, then push both arms sharply after popping. The kite is supposed to fall on its back if done properly, but I am having a devil of a time getting it to backflip reliably. Once, it kinda did flop back, but then, it just floated and fell out of the sky.

Any helpful suggestions?

Thanks, Ken
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Wayner
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« Reply #39 on: July 24, 2012, 05:00 PM »

When the wind eventually died down below 2 MPH consistently, I gave up fighting with it. It was really hot and humid and I just didn't have the energy to work that hard and sweat that much!

I feel your heat. Only get 2 early morning hours before the heat rolls in.   Embarrassed

When the winds died, occasionally, instead of backpedaling furiously, I just used those opportunities to improve my landing skills while waiting for the breeze to pick up.

Good plan

I believe it is possible to do an axel or 1/2 axel with the PD-SUL. I'm pretty sure I've seen it done on a Devin video; however, I must be missing something critical. Every time I tried to give slack to one wing and tug/pull the other at varying strengths (anywhere in the window), that upper wing just caught wind and wouldn't rotate. What is the secret to get the kite to spin on its axis?

Sounds like your problem is the kite is not stalled.
Ken, you will have better success learning these tricks on your WM and then trying them on the PD-SUL. Tricks on any SUL are difficult because of their lack of mass and require specific timing.

2) I tried to do a maneuver where I fly straight down and, then, push both arms aggressively to put the kite on its belly. Even when I quite literally RAN forward, the kite just went straight down and bumped its nose. How do you get it to flare or pancake? Eventually, I'll be asking how to get it out of that position, but first I'd like to see if I can even get to that point with this kite.

Chilese works with me all the time on this on.  Wink
Try flying the kite off to the side where there is less/no wind. Pull you hands back as far as possible. Walk forward to slow down the kite. Sweep you hands forward quickly but smoothly.

3) I also tried a turtle where I fly straight upward, then push both arms sharply after popping. The kite is supposed to fall on its back if done properly, but I am having a devil of a time getting it to backflip reliably. Once, it kinda did flop back, but then, it just floated and fell out of the sky.
 


The PD-SUL is old school kite and designed for flying not tricking. Not sure it will go into the turtle. SUL's like smooth movements and your pop maybe to aggressive. Plus you need to move forward.

Here are some tricks to try with the PD-SUL
 - Side Slide
 - Pinwheel http://www.gwtwforum.com/index.php?topic=7674.0
 - 360
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mikenchico
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« Reply #40 on: July 24, 2012, 06:22 PM »

Hot & humid will suck the wind out of  anybody's sails   Sad 

Seriously though it does seem to make a difference. I have spent hours flying a standard at waters edge in a cool ocean breeze I could barely feel that I wouldn't have bothered to launch an ultralight in at home. I also know that here in the heat updrafts come into play, the wind may be blowing where you are standing but there may be nothing 100' away at the kite. We experience that all the time during the summer. An updraft may make you feel wind at your back but if it is between you and the kite the wind may be at its back also. I've had kites fall forward when I feel wind on my neck.

Early mornings before the heat sets in might find better conditions, or any body of water will often generate a stable updraft enough for your PDSUL.

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vertigo2u
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« Reply #41 on: July 25, 2012, 07:38 AM »

Kenny,Kenny,Kenny,

O.K.  You have to be very gentle when trying those tricks. But don't try them right away.  Fly her and fly her.  take off an land.  DO IT 1000 times.  Always plan on doing what ever you learn a 1000 times... Taking off and landing is not easy the first time one try's.  Everything in this sport takes practice.

Flying the Dancer is nothing different.  Practice.      Wine and dine her for awhile.  Enjoy the color against sunsets.  Do some slides ... But NOOOOOOOOOOoooo Kenny wants to take her to bed right away.

Re-watch my pro Dancer video.  Turtle is a real tough trick with her.  Because of her design she will stay on her back..

You can axel and but I would forget the Fades or Pancakes.  She is light and needs to be treated gently.  So throwing her out for a fade and pulling you arms back to quickly... can only upset her.  She is old School meaning her design wasn't made for some quick Cascade tricks or multi lazy Susan's.

She doesn't do DISCO or SALSA .. Now Waltz,Fox Trot, ... forget about it..

360's are nice but take a ton of effort and sweat. In the end you ran around in a circle and then What ??

She does pretty 540's.  Just fly for a couple weeks. 

NOW MOST IMPORTANT ADVISE FOR LOW NO WIND... CALL JON AND BUY A "INAK".
In my latest video you see the Ocius fall to the ground.  you also see the Inak doing 540's when the Ocius Sul and Pro dancer could not fly....

BUY A "INAK" for those days when it's ZERO .... watch the video and comment..Vertigo out !!
 

http://www.kitesandfunthings.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=SB005
« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 07:43 AM by vertigo2u » Logged

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Ken Bour
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« Reply #42 on: July 25, 2012, 08:37 AM »

Flying the Dancer is nothing different.  Practice.  Wine and dine her for awhile.  Enjoy the color against sunsets.  Do some slides ... But NOOOOOOOOOOoooo Kenny wants to take her to bed right away.

Hilarious -- I won't deny it! Cheesy

Quote
Re-watch my pro Dancer video.  Turtle is a real tough trick with her.  Because of her design she will stay on her back...

OK, I am striking turtles from the dance card!

Quote
You can axel and but I would forget the Fades or Pancakes.  She is light and needs to be treated gently.  So throwing her out for a fade and pulling you arms back to quickly... can only upset her.  She is old School meaning her design wasn't made for some quick Cascade tricks or multi lazy Susan's. She doesn't do DISCO or SALSA .. Now Waltz,Fox Trot, ... forget about it..

Got it! No flipping in either direction although, watching your videos, it looks like you start your 540's by flying downward and then working in a fade before spinning the kite. Maybe I am visualizing it incorrectly.

Quote
360's are nice but take a ton of effort and sweat. In the end you ran around in a circle and then What ??
She does pretty 540's. Just fly for a couple weeks. 

I did attempt one 360 and nose planted (the kite) before I got through the first 1/4 turn! Maybe I'll try again when the weather is a bit cooler and there is practically no wind to overcome.

Concerning the 540, I will hold off on that trick and take your advice to just wine and dine for awhile. Cool  There's plenty to work on with turns, figures, landings, takeoffs, and stalls. In a few weeks, I'll be back asking about how to perform the 540; but, for now, I understand that we need to date a while longer before Kiss!

Quote
NOW MOST IMPORTANT ADVISE FOR LOW NO WIND... CALL JON AND BUY A "INAK".

Sounds like a plan!

Thanks, Ken
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