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Author Topic: Freilein Windrider Quad Kite  (Read 14437 times)
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sunsetflyers
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« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2012, 06:55 PM »

i hope i didnt come accross to strong most people dont even know they are buying aknockoff i dont look down on anybody who falls for this i dont know this kite or how well it flys i might be good my OPINION is just that i love revs and the people who make them i to bought a knock off power kite and had nothing but problems it was big and cheap i did use the material to make 20 sand anchors good ankors like i said in previous post i have many revs and would sell you one with laser pro lines and rev handles i hope you got a good flying kite it may be welcome to the wonderful world of quads they are the best i love all my revs and fly them the most and the people flying quads are the best i have made some wonderful friends through kite flyin just my two cents for what its worth


          steve
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Steve & Sherri
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« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2012, 10:43 PM »

Heya kiteflyer,

First, thanks for being human about all this (and more thanks to the cordial folks here who didn't snap on you).

Just to clarify - simple matter of fact, the SHAPE of the Revolution is covered by copyright.

Anything made in that shape without license falls under US copyright law, which is why you don't see it from other US manufacturers... As I understand it, this copyright law should be defendable across seas - but the process takes longer and is more expensive, much of it is still in process, but seems to be 100% justified.

Freilein appears to be a Chinese company, and doesn't seem to have any involvement (sponsorship, organization, education) with the global kite community at large - always my first test of measure for a company's character.

With that nasty stuff out of the way, welcome to quad fun! I love dual and single fun too, of course.

Revs come through the Swap Meet at good prices pretty often, and a few folks out there may even have a kite they're willing to part with for the cause... Good luck, I hope you find something soon! Smiley
Just for your own info Jon, China does not honor US copyright laws and that has been a battle across all industries.  However the fact that us companies still use chinese factories is really a slap in the face to anyone stepping up against knockoffs of any product.
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Kitelife
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« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2012, 11:03 PM »

Fair enough... Not being a wholesaler or general consumer, I don't get to pull those strings.
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John Barresi
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« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2012, 08:54 AM »

excuse me while i go copyright the irregular hexagon, delta, and diamond shapes.

i'm gonna be rich AND loved by all!

I know this is a throw away joke, but since it misses wide anyway... Wink

I'm pretty sure that the correct term here (and in reference to the Revolution) is "patent." Regardless, you would run into centuries' worth of "prior art." While some patent trolls manage to sneak some things through, you wouldn't have a prayer.
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fidelio
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« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2012, 03:19 PM »

the term i meant, is the term i used. read the reply directly preceding mine by JB.
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Fdeli
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« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2012, 06:21 PM »

excuse me while i go copyright the irregular hexagon, delta, and diamond shapes.

i'm gonna be rich AND loved by all!

 Cheesy 

Didn't  we....?   oh well
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« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2012, 09:30 PM »

Dave Gomberg won a lawsuit against some counterfeit kites and won custody of them.  The story is here along with an interesting challenge.
http://www.gombergkites.com/update/663.html
Dave's real kites are available thru our most gracious host Chico Kites.

What would you do to destroy a counterfeit Octopus? Cool
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red sweater
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« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2012, 07:20 AM »

What would you do to destroy a counterfeit Octopus? Cool

Dry ice and heavy winds?  Wink
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« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2012, 09:20 AM »


Revs come through the Swap Meet at good prices pretty often, and a few folks out there may even have a kite they're willing to part with for the cause... Good luck, I hope you find something soon! Smiley
Quote
Just for your own info Jon, China does not honor US copyright laws and that has been a battle across all industries.  However the fact that us companies still use chinese factories is really a slap in the face to anyone stepping up against knockoffs of any product.

This is such a BS statement .There have been kites made in China by US based companies since Jalbert in the 70's ( i've got one) You can't name more than one  US or European company that sells mass produced kites other than Rev that does not use China. The industry does a good job policing itself and protecting designers . There have been instances but over all respect is given. When Revs patents were up not one company actively sought to challenge them. Rather they sought other ways to enter the framed quad market. To hold the whole Chinese industry of kite factories to this claim is like them saying Americans are to fat and lazy to make their own kites.
Rob

(fixed your quote Rob rob)
« Last Edit: August 14, 2012, 09:45 AM by thief » Logged

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sluggo
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« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2012, 11:15 AM »

Just to clarify - simple matter of fact, the SHAPE of the Revolution is covered by copyright.


Are you sure you don't mean trademark? I didn't find anything when trying a quick copyright search (though officially that doesn't mean anything), but a few minutes with TESS yielded this:

[oops... Not sure how to get a persistent URL to a trademark registration.] To see the trademark, go to http://tess2.uspto.gov, click "Word and/or Design Mark Search (Structured)", enter 3879635 for the search term, and choose "Registration Number" for the field.


I'm not a lawyer and I don't know anything, but it seems to me that the shape would fall to some degree under the "useful articles" exclusion of copyright protection: http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl103.html (yes there are other possible shapes for a 4 line kite, but it's clear from reading Revolution's "History" page that the shape has a large utilitarian component. It's not a flying octopus...)
« Last Edit: August 14, 2012, 07:03 PM by sluggo » Logged
Ca Ike
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« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2012, 11:44 AM »


Revs come through the Swap Meet at good prices pretty often, and a few folks out there may even have a kite they're willing to part with for the cause... Good luck, I hope you find something soon! Smiley
Quote
Just for your own info Jon, China does not honor US copyright laws and that has been a battle across all industries.  However the fact that us companies still use chinese factories is really a slap in the face to anyone stepping up against knockoffs of any product.

This is such a BS statement .There have been kites made in China by US based companies since Jalbert in the 70's ( i've got one) You can't name more than one  US or European company that sells mass produced kites other than Rev that does not use China. The industry does a good job policing itself and protecting designers . There have been instances but over all respect is given. When Revs patents were up not one company actively sought to challenge them. Rather they sought other ways to enter the framed quad market. To hold the whole Chinese industry of kite factories to this claim is like them saying Americans are to fat and lazy to make their own kites.
Rob

(fixed your quote Rob rob)
No its not a BS statement.  China does not honor patent or copyright laws of other countries.  Its left up to the individual industry and yes there are a lot of industries that will honor them even after they expire.  As for the kite industry, Weifang and his factories are the top clone maker, yet its weifang and his factories that are used by a lot of the kite companies.  PRism and FW are (were) the exceptions that I know of.  If we want to stop the cloning or at least make it really rough to do we need, not only as a consumer base to not buy these, but as an industry to stop using these factories and hold them responsible.  The clones are coming out damn near as fast if not before the official releases and the logical reason for that it the clone factory has the real kite production and the plans or has gotten ahold of a pre release kite somehow.

I'm glad Gomberg won his battle against weifang but that had to have been a hard fight.  The fact that the industry still uses those factories IMO is like telling gomberg they don't care what happens to him and his designs.
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thief
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« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2012, 11:57 AM »


Revs come through the Swap Meet at good prices pretty often, and a few folks out there may even have a kite they're willing to part with for the cause... Good luck, I hope you find something soon! Smiley
Quote
Just for your own info Jon, China does not honor US copyright laws and that has been a battle across all industries.  However the fact that us companies still use chinese factories is really a slap in the face to anyone stepping up against knockoffs of any product.

This is such a BS statement .There have been kites made in China by US based companies since Jalbert in the 70's ( i've got one) You can't name more than one  US or European company that sells mass produced kites other than Rev that does not use China. The industry does a good job policing itself and protecting designers . There have been instances but over all respect is given. When Revs patents were up not one company actively sought to challenge them. Rather they sought other ways to enter the framed quad market. To hold the whole Chinese industry of kite factories to this claim is like them saying Americans are to fat and lazy to make their own kites.
Rob

(fixed your quote Rob rob)
No its not a BS statement.  China does not honor patent or copyright laws of other countries.  Its left up to the individual industry and yes there are a lot of industries that will honor them even after they expire.  As for the kite industry, Weifang and his factories are the top clone maker, yet its weifang and his factories that are used by a lot of the kite companies.  PRism and FW are (were) the exceptions that I know of.  If we want to stop the cloning or at least make it really rough to do we need, not only as a consumer base to not buy these, but as an industry to stop using these factories and hold them responsible.  The clones are coming out damn near as fast if not before the official releases and the logical reason for that it the clone factory has the real kite production and the plans or has gotten ahold of a pre release kite somehow.

I'm glad Gomberg won his battle against weifang but that had to have been a hard fight.  The fact that the industry still uses those factories IMO is like telling gomberg they don't care what happens to him and his designs.
I just want to point out that Rob might know what he is talking about....he has been working for kite manufacturers for a few years now (over 20 yet Rob?) and he is the COO of New Tech and has to deal with their own factory (I think the New Tech factory is not one of those  in Weifang - a place not a person - but not 100% certain).

How did Gomberg "win" his battle?   In the situation that Boomertype mentions he sued a former customer of his who had purchased a number of kites direct from China, and in the settlement Gomberg was awarded the chinese kites.   That is not a battle with Weifang manufacturers though, that was an US issue.
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red sweater
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« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2012, 12:03 PM »


Revs come through the Swap Meet at good prices pretty often, and a few folks out there may even have a kite they're willing to part with for the cause... Good luck, I hope you find something soon! Smiley
Quote
Just for your own info Jon, China does not honor US copyright laws and that has been a battle across all industries.  However the fact that us companies still use chinese factories is really a slap in the face to anyone stepping up against knockoffs of any product.

This is such a BS statement .There have been kites made in China by US based companies since Jalbert in the 70's ( i've got one) You can't name more than one  US or European company that sells mass produced kites other than Rev that does not use China. The industry does a good job policing itself and protecting designers . There have been instances but over all respect is given. When Revs patents were up not one company actively sought to challenge them. Rather they sought other ways to enter the framed quad market. To hold the whole Chinese industry of kite factories to this claim is like them saying Americans are to fat and lazy to make their own kites.
Rob

(fixed your quote Rob rob)
No its not a BS statement.  China does not honor patent or copyright laws of other countries.  Its left up to the individual industry and yes there are a lot of industries that will honor them even after they expire.  As for the kite industry, Weifang and his factories are the top clone maker, yet its weifang and his factories that are used by a lot of the kite companies.  PRism and FW are (were) the exceptions that I know of.  If we want to stop the cloning or at least make it really rough to do we need, not only as a consumer base to not buy these, but as an industry to stop using these factories and hold them responsible.  The clones are coming out damn near as fast if not before the official releases and the logical reason for that it the clone factory has the real kite production and the plans or has gotten ahold of a pre release kite somehow.

I'm glad Gomberg won his battle against weifang but that had to have been a hard fight.  The fact that the industry still uses those factories IMO is like telling gomberg they don't care what happens to him and his designs.

This is a helpful clarification. If the same factory/company serves as both the knockoff-maker and the go-to licensee for production, that is very troubling. Though, while I was writing this, I see thief say that Weifang is a place, not a person/company. So, is it indeed the case that the same parties make both knockoffs and legitimate kites? Or are the licensees somehow enabling the knockoff-makers? If not, you would be smearing good (or, at least, approved) actors just for being of the same nationality of the bad.
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thief
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« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2012, 12:19 PM »

This is a helpful clarification. If the same factory/company serves as both the knockoff-maker and the go-to licensee for production, that is very troubling. Though, while I was writing this, I see thief say that Weifang is a place, not a person/company. So, is it indeed the case that the same parties make both knockoffs and legitimate kites? Or are the licensees somehow enabling the knockoff-makers? If not, you would be smearing good (or, at least, approved) actors just for being of the same nationality of the bad.

There are many stories about the factories where iphones are made:
During the day the factory is pumping out Apple's iphones....then at night there is a second shift where the crew is making the exact same thing - just not for Apple.........
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« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2012, 12:35 PM »

There are stories all over the place of Chinese contractors building products for American companies and then countefeiting them for the Chinese market as well as direct mai lto the US market. They are more successful doing it for Chinese purchases though because they know that US law and int'l law will spank them, but they have over 1 boillion potential customers so they just take the plans and it is very hard to prosecutein the Chinese court or civil systems. China is still a socialist state so they don't make it easy for foreign companies to get justice. Many news stories have reported that it is getting easier to get relief and China's economy is it's own enemy now with their growing middle class and population increasing costs. Their labor advantage is shrinking, but items like kites with heavy labor and low cost I think still favor the contractors (by day, counterfietors by night).
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