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Author Topic: Incorrect arm movements with cascade  (Read 3383 times)
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mama74
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« Reply #30 on: October 17, 2012, 10:18 AM »

I recently learned the "across the body" half axel...from watching Martin's HA video, no less. I figured that was the way I was supposed to do it! At least if I wanted to be like mama74, and let's face it, who doesn't?

Now I have to (re)learn to do it with a straight pull.


Same problem I had.  Roll Eyes  I love Martin's video but the  "across the body" half axel movement was been a big problem for me to correct. Took about 6 month till it finally disapeared.



And I want to fly like Debray Smiley

Besides that, how do I comment on this...

I do a Half Axel and a HA-cascade in different ways.
I do the Half Axel with cross-pull. Cross-pulling put the hands in just the right position for putting pressure back in the sail: in front of the body, arms bend. This, for me, is the best way for making a clean exit from the Half Axel.
I do the HA-cascade without cross-pulling, since the hand movements required are smaller and easier to do fast this way. Often, I do a cross-pull when exiting the HA-cascade.

From wich video did you learn the cross-pulling? As far as I remember, I only did this in the HA+Cascade Studies from 2008. The way I HA in this video, is how I usually do it.
In the Half Axel Tutorial and HA1-7, I actually modified my inputs to make them visible to the camera, quitting the cross-pull.

My apologies if I put you through a lot of extra work Smiley The Half Axel is not easy to explain/understand... it happens in about half a second.

But of course, if it works, you're doing it right Smiley
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zippy8
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« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2012, 10:24 AM »

Tricking is the act of moving your hands away from neutral. That's the way it's done along with moving your body too. If a trick needs a big arm movement down and away, then your hand is down and away. So then you need to keep coming back to a neutral position. This can be a process were the kite is moving and your already coming back to a position for the next input. Slack is created when you input, pop pull etc. then release the tension allowing the kite to move. Hopefully in the desired fashion. Take up slack, if needed and repeat.
Huh

Anyhooooo...... the across-the-chest "technique" will get you a Cascade but that style of input is poorly suited to, for instance, the Comète. Preferable to have one method, wouldn't we all agreed ?

Mike.
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RonG
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« Reply #32 on: October 17, 2012, 10:44 AM »

The problem isn't with how any particular trick looks as a stand alone.

Your hands are going to be way out of position for whatever else comes next.
That's what I was thinking, of course.

It's been a long time since I thought about tricks in isolation, as in "now I'm going to do a cascade....done". If the method of execution of a particular trick makes it hard to flow into something else, from my standpoint that's a problem.

Executing a cascade (or anything else) in an unorthodox manner doesn't make the cascade "wrong", but some methods are going to leave you with fewer options as to what happens next.
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rudyy
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« Reply #33 on: October 17, 2012, 11:24 AM »

Quote
Anyhooooo...... the across-the-chest "technique" will get you a Cascade but that style of input is poorly suited to, for instance, the Comète. Preferable to have one method, wouldn't we all agreed ?

Mike.

Interestingly enough, I do the comete using the straight pull.  It is very difficult or I would say almost impossible to comete using the across the chest technique because it demands a lot more arm movments than the cascade.

It is just like backspin which needs straight pull, you do not yank the line towards your chest as it will not work at all and you will kill yourself.  lol

Rudy
« Last Edit: October 17, 2012, 11:36 AM by rudyy » Logged
red sweater
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« Reply #34 on: October 17, 2012, 04:32 PM »

From wich video did you learn the cross-pulling? As far as I remember, I only did this in the HA+Cascade Studies from 2008.

My apologies if I put you through a lot of extra work Smiley The Half Axel is not easy to explain/understand... it happens in about half a second.

But of course, if it works, you're doing it right Smiley

Yeah, it would have been that video. I actually studied the HA tutorial first, and tried it that way (without the cross pull) for a while. The tutorial appears to have little or no pull out of the flare. As an inland flier with low wind and an UL, I was finding that my flares were lasting longer than I thought would be correct. Maybe I was entering the flare too hard, and maybe I just wasn't getting tension on the line to exit the flare. (I don't have a soft touch yet.)

So, in preparation for my week at the beach, I looked at other videos, including the HA/cascade studies. That's probably where I picked up the cross pull. And I have to say, it worked brilliantly in the higher winds (at the edges).

I'm sure it's just a matter of finding the right touch on the UL. I don't want to sound like I'm blaming you at all. I was probably almost there before I switched kites, wind conditions, and techniques. But even with all that change, I was pulling clean, swift half axels right away. Who knows, maybe trying it that way helped me understand it better for learning the straight pull method. I don't think it's too entrenched as a habit yet, either.

Thanks for replying, by the way. I find your videos immensely helpful.

I do a Half Axel and a HA-cascade in different ways.
I do the Half Axel with cross-pull. Cross-pulling put the hands in just the right position for putting pressure back in the sail: in front of the body, arms bend. This, for me, is the best way for making a clean exit from the Half Axel.
I do the HA-cascade without cross-pulling, since the hand movements required are smaller and easier to do fast this way. Often, I do a cross-pull when exiting the HA-cascade.

Oh, I guess I wanted to respond to this part, too. This makes a lot of sense, and I agree completely. I definitely like the exits better when I tried the cross pull. Snappy and smooth.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2012, 04:42 PM by red sweater » Logged

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Wayner
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« Reply #35 on: October 17, 2012, 08:22 PM »


My apologies if I put you through a lot of extra work Smiley The Half Axel is not easy to explain/understand... it happens in about half a second.

But of course, if it works, you're doing it right Smiley

Martin, no need to apologize or feel bad. First I love your videos. Second I learned the half axel from watching them. Would not trade that for anyting  Grin

In my case, just see it as some of your style did not work for me.

Now when I do a half axel, all I do is smile. So this is my chance to thank you for the video,

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JimB
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« Reply #36 on: October 17, 2012, 09:19 PM »

When an experienced flier decides to execute a move with an unorthodox hand or arm movement because it sets him up for something he has in mind to do next that's one thing.

A good example is that "pop down pop up" move those French guys use to get some exceptionally fast and clean moves.

When a newbie learns to cross pull early on in the learning curve, that is another thing entirely.

It just doesn't lead anywhere good.

I don't want any newbies wandering into this thread to get the idea that it's okay to cross pull just because. It's not.

If at some point a flier decides to cross pull or whatever for a reason other than just because, then great go for it.

Rules are meant to broken, but having an idea of what your about when you do break them generally works out for the best.

« Last Edit: October 17, 2012, 09:21 PM by JimB » Logged
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