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Author Topic: High wind/Vented Team Kite  (Read 3979 times)
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Flying Fish
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« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2012, 06:00 AM »

^ +1

I have a Talon and a Deep Space, and both are fantastic kites. Fantastic for what they're designed to do, which is freestyle/trick flying. I fly in a team as well, and cannot imagine using my Talon or DS for that. Simply won't work. Talons and DSs do not have the predictable railtrack precision that you need in a team kite. With the team, we mostly fly our North Shores (Konas, Radicals, VIPs). These are fantastic for what they're designed to do, which is team-flying. Yes, you can coax an axel out of a North Shore, but it doesn't look very comfortable. Similarly, trying to fly team patterns with Talons or DSs won't look very good either.
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hawkerhunter
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« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2012, 07:33 AM »

Interesting stuff guys. So when Mark Reed designed the Quantum Pro that team cutting edge used and won with on many occasions, was he designing a team kite or a trick kite because from where Im stood it looks to be pretty good at both. Just playing devils advocate of course. Wink
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zippy8
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« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2012, 07:44 AM »

Quantum Pro.... a trick kite

No. Just.... no.

Quote
because from where Im stood it looks to be pretty good at both.

You need to move a little. The QPro was a pretty good shot at polyvalent (and I said as much some time ago) but it's a kite you do some tricks with, not a trick kite. The distinction is subtle but it's there.

Mike.
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hawkerhunter
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« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2012, 08:16 AM »


092 by hawkerhunter, on Flickr


093 by hawkerhunter, on Flickr


094 by hawkerhunter, on Flickr

Just a couple of some lads flying some vented Talons at the same time then.

PS If Mark Clements wants to chip in here feel free Mark. Why do I feel Iam backed into a corner here LOL
« Last Edit: October 30, 2012, 09:18 AM by hawkerhunter » Logged
roisinroisin21
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« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2012, 08:20 AM »

Just some guys flyin together i guess
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zippy8
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« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2012, 08:26 AM »

Just a couple of some lads flying some vented Talons together then. Smiley
Strictly speaking two makes a Pair. You'll need at least one more to constitute a Team.

No-one is trying to stop you flying whatever you feel like together but let's reference the original poster's clarification:- I'm looking more at precision/ballet kite. Go bang out some figures with the Talons and get back to us. You can do it but sooooooo much better options are available, mostly because they were designed for that sort of thing whereas the Talon wasn't.

Quote
Why do I feel Iam backed into a corner here LOL
You're paranoid ?  Embarrassed

Mike.
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tpatter
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« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2012, 10:37 AM »

I'm looking more at precision/ballet kite. I just starting to fly in a team.  We have chosen an SUL option. We have made  standard Team kites. 

No specific recommendation in that price range, but a few suggestions/ideas to think about.

I've found that in high wind, you likely want to keep your tricks limited to those that work really well and are super reliable in high wind such as comete, cascade, insane, dramatic landings, and half-axel.  So, if you want to do tricks in higher winds, I'd look for one that does those pretty well.

Tom
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6 kite tom
Kantaxel
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« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2012, 04:21 PM »

Quantum Pro.... a trick kite

No. Just.... no.

Quote
because from where Im stood it looks to be pretty good at both.

You need to move a little. The QPro was a pretty good shot at polyvalent (and I said as much some time ago) but it's a kite you do some tricks with, not a trick kite. The distinction is subtle but it's there.

Mike.

Oh contrare Zip.
If you are an 'average flyer' I suppose you would want to go with a tricky, non tracking kind of kite..........there are a lot of players out there that do not have to coax a trick out of the QPro...........they have the skills to give it the 'proper input', because that's what the Pro likes.
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jecko
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« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2012, 04:43 PM »

I have to agree with Zippy and Dromel.
Although the Talon is a good kite ( I personally fly the UL and loves it), would be fine to fly in pairs but for TEAM I would rather have a full size or proper kite made for team flying. Something in the mould of (Fury,Matrix,Blackbird,NSR,T5,Prediction,Miro and so on...)
Most are not made available anymore, the ones available are too pricey..AeroStuff equiped polyvalent. Wink

the search continues........... Cool
 
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Stuart99
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« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2012, 05:45 PM »

Will Sturdy also makes a vented/heavy Saber. I really enjoy mine and there is a lot of adjustability in the venting.

Only problem is that the availability may be a bit sketchy as Will is in school at the moment. Shoot him an email. I can only imagine that there is an AirX version in the works and the AirX SaberIII is awesome.
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zippy8
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« Reply #25 on: October 23, 2012, 11:31 PM »

the skills to give it the 'proper input', because that's what the Pro likes.
That's what the QPro demands and is a welcome trait for Pairs/Team flying but no amount of "proper input" is going to overcome the fundamental design limitations and restrictions of the kite. Even I was able to make it "trick" but as soon as I picked up something with more controlled uncontrollability* much more becomes available, but at the expense of the lines, shapes and corners that you hope for in more a precision/ballet kite. Take a look at the modifications that Kevin Doublet needed to expand his trick repertoire on the QPro.

What have the top teams used over the past few years - QPro, Fury, Blackbird. None of these are "trick" kites by any definition I would recognise (YMMV). Suggestions at least along the same lines as these kites would seem to be appropriate. The Talon does not fit this description, even to the kitemaker himself.

Mike,
* bonus points are available.
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ae
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« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2012, 12:44 AM »

Another thing of great importance in a team kite is speed control. You need to be able to control the flying speed of the kite with the least body movement. Otherwise you can and most likely will run into the problem that you stand to far apart during parts of your routine, leading to suboptimal angles of lines crossing and all that jazz.

Also helpful is a bridle you can a) tun to your teams flying style with easy and b) is not millimeter critical in its adjustments. Which will make it much easier to tune all kites in the team to fly the same way, turning, speed, etc.

You also want a solid pull but not so much that you are getting dragged across the field. But solid enough to have a full sail in all conditions.

The kite should also handle gusts well, no tumbling uncontrolled out of the sky, no sudden stalls and drifting etc.

Flying line, with my team in the distant past we where using 143 feet long lines. It gives you a much larger wind window, especially required in a 5 man team. Also slows the kite down in higher winds. Pick the line a number thicker then you would normally for team flying, a) to slow the kite down some and b) more importantly have a greater buffer from abrasion since you are crossing a lot more lines then normally and at different angles. As for handles, i would suggest the good skyclaws from shanti.
they give you a nice line spool method, lay good in the hand, plus because unlike straps, you have to grip them, you notice easier when your strength fades and you need a break. And you still can place a finger directly on the line to feel the kite more directly.
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Flying Fish
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« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2012, 01:06 AM »

^ All good and valid points. And it's certainly the case that there are very few real proper team kites on the market today. Most of the classical ones (e.g. NSR, Fury, Matrix, Blackbird, and of course Hawaiian in the early days) aren't for sale any more, so you're relying on 2nd hand kites. The only currently-available proper team kite that I have experience with is the Airdynamics T4/T5, which is an excellent kite.

If it's of any help, here is an overview of the kites we have for our pair-flying. For the team (4 or 5 flying), we were lucky to get full sets of North Shores (i.e. Konas, Radicals and VIPs) on long-term loan, and everyone in the team also has a Dream On and a mega-vented Matrix.
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Kantaxel
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« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2012, 02:04 AM »

controlled uncontrollability* much more becomes available, but at the expense of the lines, shapes and corners that you hope for in more a precision/ballet kite. Take a look at the modifications that Kevin Doublet needed to expand his trick repertoire on the QPro.

.

Mike,
* bonus points are available.

I believe you have outdone yourself this time.......an oxymoron at best......at the least ?  I dare not comment. Cheesy
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zippy8
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« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2012, 03:01 AM »

I believe you have outdone yourself this time.......an oxymoron at best......at the least ?  I dare not comment. Cheesy

Your n00b is showing  Roll Eyes

Mike  Wink
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